<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:TrebuchetMS;
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Amr & Avri,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I understood Fadi’s invitation similarly to you Avri and, personally, can see the NCSG / ALAC initiative for what it seems to be i.e. a good faith attempt to jump on the train before it leaves the station.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Also, I certainly do not believe any SG/C needs the Council’s blessing or permission to participate. Where the Council MAY be able to help is assisting with the communication / co-ordination to ensure all GNSO groups are fully aware of what is going on and any recent background. This thread seems to have been helpful in that context.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> avri [mailto:avri@acm.org] <br><b>Sent:</b> 28 November 2013 00:52<br><b>To:</b> <council@gnso.icann.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I had understood it that Fadi invited the whole community to do something. So, it wasn't that he specifically invited the non commercials of NCSG and users of ALAC, but rather that like everyone else we heard the invitation at the Wednesday early morning meeting, and decided to act on it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In doing so, the idea was, we saw the train leaving and we figured we would jump on before it left without us. We also extended an invitation for all other SG/C to join us when we announced in the forum that we had taken up the offer and gotten the ball rolling.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rafik, the NCSG chair and Olivier the ALAC chair are currently facilitating this effort. I suggest other SG/C talk to them about joining in the effort if interested. I also understand that some may decide to stand aside from this CWG on bottom-up principle. I can respect that. But at this point we are so far beyond the bottom-up principle on so many aspects of ICANN actions, I find that it is a principle mostly honored in the breech.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I appreciate that Sally accepted that this effort was the start of response to their request for community participation. I also see no reason why on a cross community wg, NCSG should need the council's permission to participate.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>avri<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>Sent from a T-Mobile 4G LTE Device<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Amr Elsadr <<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>> <br>Date: 11/27/2013 19:15 (GMT-05:00) <br>To: John Berard <<a href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com">john@crediblecontext.com</a>> <br>Cc: "<<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>>" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>>,"<<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>> <br>Subject: Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues <br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Jonathan and John,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The NCSG/ALAC meeting where this idea was proposed started immediately following the Council wrap-up session. It was not, to my knowledge, an initiative born from any invitation of any kind nor imposed by anyone from the “top” or elsewhere. It was more of a discussion amongst civil society actors within the ICANN community to coordinate efforts to ensure NCSG/ALAC representation in whatever process leads up to the Brazil summit (or whatever they’ve decided to call it) in April 2014. In fact, one of the outputs of the meeting was a suggestion to draft a joint NCSG/ALAC letter addressed to Fadi expressing a desire to engage in the process.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>During the meeting, it was also decided that inviting the broader ICANN community to the discussion using a Wiki as a platform for cross community input on the topic was a good idea. The term “Cross-Community Working Group” was used in an email message on an NCSG list, but I am not aware of any actual WG or drafting team in the pipeline. Just a Wiki-based cross community discussion platform. If this changes, if I learn something I do not know now, or when the Wiki goes online, I’ll be sure to send a note to all of you on the Council list to make sure you’re all informed.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sound good?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Amr<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, John Berard <<a href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com">john@crediblecontext.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>The work of the drafting team is aimed at creating an aligned PDP and reflects a bottom-up sensibility<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>This CWG on Internet Governance is more politics than policy and has been imposed from the top,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>What I would like to know is who issued the invitation to the ALAC and NCSG, what was the rationale and why the NCSG accepted without consultation with the broader GNSO of which they are a part?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>Were other ACs and SOs invited? Did they decline?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>I am aware that I am veering toward paranoia, but it's not inappropriate if they are really out to get you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'>Berard<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TrebuchetMS","serif"'><br>On Nov 27, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Jonathan Robinson" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info"><span style='color:purple'>jrobinson@afilias.info</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>All,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At the Council meeting wrap-up in Buenos Aires, we talked about GNSO participation in the CWG on internet governance and the Council and/or GNSO Council chair’s otential role.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At the time, I don’t believe we were aware of the proposed role of ALAC / NCSG as co-ordinators. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I think (from a Council perspective) we should probably now await the call for further participation and respond to that, but I am open to any other suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>We could offer the CWG principles as they currently stand?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>