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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Dear Jonathan:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">I meant to add earlier that I concur with your assessment on status completely.  And, if others are in agreement, I think it may be useful to highlight not only

 that “the GAC's input should be focused primarily on the potential public policy implications of the work of the GNSO,” but that we should also develop a way to identify very early on and apprise everyone as to whether a particular aspect of our policy work

 has potential public policy implications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">For example, take the potential public policy implications the PPSAI PDP WG may have</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">;</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">

 is there a clear way to encapsulate those for the GAC now that the WG is underway?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Brian J. Winterfeldt

<br>

</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">Head of Internet Practice<br>

</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#83A6BD">Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP<br>

</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333">2900 K Street NW, North Tower - Suite 200 / Washington, DC 20007-5118<br>

p / (202) 625-3562 f / (202) 339-8244<br>

<a href="mailto:brian.winterfeldt@kattenlaw.com">brian.winterfeldt@kattenlaw.com</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> /

</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333"><a href="http://www.kattenlaw.com/">www.kattenlaw.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Winterfeldt, Brian J.

<br>

<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 28, 2013 6:19 PM<br>

<b>To:</b> Amr Elsadr<br>

<b>Cc:</b> Mike O'Connor; <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>>; Mary Wong; Council GNSO<br>

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [council] Final GAC communique<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal">I'm happy to participate as well.<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Brian<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Brian J. Winterfeldt </b><br>

Head of Internet Practice<br>

<b>Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP</b><br>

<a href="x-apple-data-detectors://0">2900 K Street NW, North Tower</a> - Suite 200 / <a href="x-apple-data-detectors://1/0">Washington, DC 20007-5118</a><br>

p / <a href="tel:(202)%20625-3562">(202) 625-3562</a> f / <a href="tel:(202)%20339-8244">(202) 339-8244</a><br>

<a href="mailto:brian.winterfeldt@kattenlaw.com">brian.winterfeldt@kattenlaw.com</a> / <a href="http://www.kattenlaw.com/">www.kattenlaw.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>

On Nov 27, 2013, at 1:59 PM, "Amr Elsadr" <<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal">Me too. <o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks. <o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal">Amr<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><br>

Sent from mobile<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>

On Nov 27, 2013, at 5:56 PM, Mike O'Connor <<a href="mailto:mike@haven2.com">mike@haven2.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto">

<div>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">i'm in.<br>

<br>

mikey<br>

<br>

<br>

On Nov 27, 2013, at 10:51 AM, "Jonathan Robinson" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>> wrote:<br>

<br>

<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Great to have this level of engagement on a topic!<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">A couple of points on status:<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">1. The issue arises formally from a recommendation of ATRT 1 i.e. that the<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">GAC should engage earlier with the GNSO PDP.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">2. My interpretation is:<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">a) that it is intended that this engagement / input should be such that when<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">(and if) the GAC does provide Advice (to the Board), it is at least not<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">unexpected and, at best, consistent with GNSO policy / policy advice.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">And <o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">b) that the GAC's input (to the GNSO policy work) should be focussed<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">primarily on the potential (or actual) public policy implications of the<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">corresponding GNSO policy work.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Of course, the devil is in both the detail and the expectations of the<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">format of and response to the input of the GAC.  That is what the table that<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Marika sent around attempts to start to flesh out.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">And, therefore, the scope of the joint team to try to make progress on.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">I received an update today from Manal which suggests that the GAC may<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">participate with as many as 6 participants.  In which case, it seems to me,<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">that we need a balanced number of participants.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Should that be the case, some of you on this thread may wish to volunteer to<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">participate.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">To set expectations, I am anticipating that we'll have a mailing list and<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">regular calls (say 2 weekly), not dissimilar to a GNSO working group.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">From: Amr Elsadr [<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org">mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>]

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Sent: 26 November 2013 17:53<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">To: Mary Wong<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Cc: Council GNSO<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [council] Final GAC communique<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Interesting. Thanks Mary.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Amr<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 26, 2013, at 6:43 PM, Mary Wong <<a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">For the benefit of some of the newer participants among us and the

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">GNSO community - note that even when GAC members participate in WGs,

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">they do not do so as representatives of the GAC, or even their own

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">countries, though they may of course be able to inform the WG of

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">either the GAC's position (if there is one) on the issue at hand. The

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">GAC has been very firm about this, and it may partly have to do with

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">how GAC consensus is achieved - as in other multi-lateral forums,

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">"consensus" is reached if there is no objection by a GAC member to a<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">particular position.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Conversely, if just one GAC member objects to a particular position,

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">there is therefore no consensus. This is of course different from how

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">GNSO PDPs and WGs work.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">As Marika has mentioned, this discussion could be helpful to the small

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">group from the GNSO that will be discussing methods of early

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">engagement with/from the GAC, mindful of Thomas' distinction between

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">GAC Advice (as conceived in the ICANN Bylaws) and GAC input.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Mary<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Mary Wong<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Senior Policy Director<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Telephone: +1 603 574 4892<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Email: <a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">* One World. One Internet. *<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">From: Amr Elsadr <<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 12:18 PM<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">To: Council GNSO <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [council] Final GAC communique<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the clarification Thomas. It makes a lot of sense to be

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">wary of what kind of early engagement we�d like to encourage from the

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">GAC, and I don�t find it surprising that there seems to be a general

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">sense of agreement here on how this should be done.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">I, like others, feel it would be great to have more GAC <o:p>

</o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">representatives become involved in PDP WGs, but cannot confidently

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">predict how this would affect the GAC reaction at-large. I am not

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">familiar with how the GAC collectively reaches a position on PDP

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">outcomes. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that these positions are

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">prepared by only a handful of their members. If anyone else has

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">insights on how this is done, I�d appreciate it if you shared.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Like Chuck said, we do have two GAC reps on the policy and <o:p>

</o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">implementation WG, but this is not a PDP WG. And unless I am mistaken

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">(and please correct me if I�m wrong on this Chuck), their <o:p>

</o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">participation both during calls and on-list is quite limited. I bring

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">this up because encouraging GAC members to join WGs is one thing, and

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">encouraging them to actively engage in the consensus development of<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">policy recommendations is another.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">I hope we can encourage them to do both. I am curious to see how

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">interaction at this level (the WG level) might affect GAC Advice

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">(capital<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">A) and their collective perception of the necessity and manner of

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">early engagement.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Amr<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 26, 2013, at 5:30 PM, Mike O'Connor <<a href="mailto:mike@haven2.com">mike@haven2.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">ah!<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">*very* helpful.  thanks Thomas for taking the time to craft that reply.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">and thanks to John for picking up how i misunderstood the core of

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thomas' argument.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">i agree with you that capital-A advice would indeed be complicated

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">for a WG to handle, given that the goal of WG discussion is to

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">arrive at positions that are usually different from the starting

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">points of each participant.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">does Berry's contribution to this thread (describing USG comments

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">during a comment period) provide an avenue for slightly-less-firm

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">input from the GAC, or GAC members?  while WG's are not required to

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">incorporate comments into their final positions, they ARE required

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">to respond to each comment -- which might provide an avenue for dialog.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">focusing on developing that approach might lead us to a good middle

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">ground between the WG's need for flexibility/negotiation and the

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">GAC's need for structure and due deliberation.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">m<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 26, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Thomas Rickert <<a href="mailto:rickert@anwaelte.de">rickert@anwaelte.de</a>><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">John, Mikey and Chuck,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">to start with, I am not against early GAC input and you will

<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">remember that I have encouraged that the GAC or individual GA

<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

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<p class="MsoNormal">members get involved at the earliest possible date. Let me quote

<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">from my earlier e-mail where I explicitly stated that:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">The GAC should engage early so that PDP WGs get an indication as

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">to what the GAC or even individual GAC member's thinking is.

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">This is valuable and will help a lot.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">What we should discuss, though, is whether GAC Advice (capital

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">letter<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">A) should be directed at PDP WGs during a PDP or at the G-Council.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Bear in mind, I spoke about GAC Advice and not about GAC input.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">My hesitation with respect to GAC Advice during a PDP stems from

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">the following considerations:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">- The term GAC Advice has legal implications. At the moment GAC

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Advice is only directed at the Board and the Board can only <o:p>

</o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">disregard GAC Advice under certain circumstances.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">-  If GAC Advice were also directed at PDP WGs, would or should

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">that be a second opportunity for the GAC to give Advice (capital

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">A)? If so, what would be the consequences of that?<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">- Could the WG disregard GAC Advice? If so, what would give the WG

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<p class="MsoNormal">authority to do so? PDP WGs work on recommendations to be made to

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">the Council, but I do not see that it has the legal authority to

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">make binding decisions on behalf of the GNSO or even ICANN, while,

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">in fact, responding to GAC Advice in one way or the other would be

<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">or would be seen as acting on behalf of ICANN.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">- If the WG followed GAC Advice, would that bind the Board at a

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">later stage so the Board looses the right to disregard it?<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">- Either way PDP WGs are tasked to work and I am not sure we should

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">burden their work with issues that might have far-reaching <o:p>

</o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">political implications for the whole community.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">- Comparable issues would arise if GAC Advice would be directed at

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">the G-Council.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Again, I very much in favor of GAC early engagement and the <o:p>

</o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<p class="MsoNormal">discussion that we have here should not dilute that. Even more, GAC

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">early engagement can help avoid friction between the GAC's <o:p>

</o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<p class="MsoNormal">expectations and the communities work product at a later stage and

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">maybe avoid the necessity for GAC Advice to the Board.<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">What I am asking for is that we carefully consider the consequences

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">of GAC input if such input took the format of GAC Advice for the

<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">reasons above.<o:p></o:p></p>

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</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

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</blockquote>

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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

<p class="MsoNormal">Thomas<o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 26.11.2013 um 12:36 schrieb John Berard <<a href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com">john@crediblecontext.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thomas,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you confirm you were arguing against early GAC input?<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Berard<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 26, 2013, at 10:25 AM, "Mike O'Connor" <<a href="mailto:mike@haven2.com">mike@haven2.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">i lean in Chuck's direction with regard to WG participation.  i

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">don't have the history/knowledge to comment on the relationship

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">between Board/GAC/GNSO-Council...<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">as i've come to know the WG process over the years, i've found

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">that it works better when there are more inputs rather than <o:p>

</o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">fewer.  that doesn't mean that it's easier, only that the results are<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">more robust.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">i've always hoped for more participation by members of the GAC

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">and am keen to find ways that they could do that.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">i also agree with Chuck that earlier participation is a great thing.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">much like any project, the sooner we can get help figuring out

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">the gaps in our thinking, or the reasons why a given direction is

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">to be desired, the easier it is to get on the right track.  and

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">the less backtracking/repair/recovery we need to do later on.  <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">often people don't really mind changing the direction a <o:p>

</o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">conversation is going if it resolves a divergence -- but when the

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">journey is nearly done, WG members are weary and the road to the

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">new place is long, sometimes participants get frustrated and

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">resist the change just because it's hard to get from here to there.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">these thoughts don't just apply to the GAC, but any point of view

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<p class="MsoNormal">that needs to be expressed in a WG.  more voices is good.  <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">earlier is good.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">like Chuck, i'm willing to be persuaded.   :-)<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">mikey<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 26, 2013, at 8:12 AM, "Gomes, Chuck" <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thomas,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Please see my responses below.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">From: Thomas Rickert [<a href="mailto:rickert@anwaelte.de">mailto:rickert@anwaelte.de</a>]<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 5:45 PM<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">To: Gomes, Chuck<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Cc: Avri Doria; Council GNSO<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [council] Final GAC communique<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Avri and Chuck,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">in my view, we should have a discussion on our expectations some

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">time soon.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Other than Avri, I do think that the GAC could engage early and

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">/ or acknowledge the role and work products of the GNSO and at

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">the same time only consider the Board as its equal.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">[Chuck Gomes] I think the Bylaws should be changed so the GAC is

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">encouraged to provide input to WGs as early as possible like

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">they did with the IGO-INGO PDP WG, albeit via the Board.  I <o:p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">personally think that the language in the Bylaws that says that

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">the GAC should be complemented with language that says they also

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<p class="MsoNormal">give advice to policy WGs that involve public policy issues.  <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">The excuse that they are just advisors to the Board should be<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">removed.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">During the GAC/GNSO session it was mentioned that the GAC still

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">needs to consider when to give advice during a GNSO policy <o:p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">development process and I am not sure we really want GAC Advice

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<p class="MsoNormal">directed at the G-Council or even at the WG level.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">[Chuck Gomes] Why not?<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">The GAC should engage early so that PDP WGs get an indication as

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">to what the GAC or even individual GAC member's thinking is.

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<p class="MsoNormal">This is valuable and will help a lot. I would not like to see

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">special rights for the GAC to be implemented. In that regard, it

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">does not harm if the GAC sees the Board as the group to direct<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">advice at.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">[Chuck Gomes] As you can see by my earlier comments, I disagree

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">but am open to being convinced otherwise.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">We should discuss this further - maybe in one of the upcoming

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">telcos.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">[Chuck Gomes] I am open to discussion but remember that I am

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">only a temporary alternate on the Council and probably will not

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">be on any more Council calls.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thomas<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 22.11.2013 um 18:09 schrieb "Gomes, Chuck"<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Note that we have two GAC participants in the Policy & <o:p>

</o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Implementation (P&I) WG.  We suggested in our letter to the GAC

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">that they might be able to serve in some sort of unofficial <o:p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">liaison capacity if the GAC was okay with that, not <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">representing the GAC but being communication channels.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">From: <a href="mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org">owner-council@gnso.icann.org</a>

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">[<a href="mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org">mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Avri Doria<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:13 PM<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">To: Council GNSO<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [council] Final GAC communique<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">I do not think this should surprise us.  And I mean the <o:p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">disrespect the GAC has for any structure lower than the Board.  <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">For them to acknowledge our work would be for them to <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">acknowledge that we have a role on a par with theirs.  And <o:p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">governments never admit to being equal to any one else - only

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">in the IGF have we seem some loosening of that in the general

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<p class="MsoNormal">Internet governance arena.  I expect that they really do not

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<p class="MsoNormal">consider the Board their equals, but they put up with the things<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">they need to put up with.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">They had a liaison with the Council in the past, but <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">participation limited them and limited their ability to give

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<p class="MsoNormal">advise that took no account of the work done in the GNSO.  <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Early engagement is contradictory to reinforcing the power of

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<p class="MsoNormal">their advice - which is their ultimate goal.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">I think we should continue to invite and encourage them to <o:p>

</o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">participate.  Sooner or later one of them will take us <o:p>

</o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">seriously again - we have had some WG participants from GAC in

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">the past, we may again some day.  But we should also not fool

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">ourselves into expecting them to take any supportive notice of our<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">efforts.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">I have every respect for those of you doing the essential work

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">on improving coordination between GAC and the GNSO, as I expect

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">your main reward will be knowing you tried, as opposed to any

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">real GAC early engagement.  Hope I am wrong.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">avri<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">On 21 Nov 2013, at 18:00, Thomas Rickert wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Nonetheless it is sad and I will say that I find it <o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">interesting to show respect to the GNSO's PDP work by working

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">on ways to engage and then completely ignore work that is done

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">in PDPs which is relevant to what they are deliberating.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thomas<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 21.11.2013 um 17:17 schrieb "Gomes, Chuck"<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Remember that they never thought we should be considering this.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">:(<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Chuck<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">From: <a href="mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org">owner-council@gnso.icann.org</a>

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">[<a href="mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org">mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Thomas

<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Rickert<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:11 PM<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">To: Glen de Saint G�ry<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Cc: <a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [council] Final GAC communique<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">sadly, the GAC communique includes Advise on IGO/INGOs, but <o:p>

</o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">does not mention the GNSO's PDP WG or the motion that passed.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Thomas<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">=============<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">thomas-rickert.tel<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">+49.228.74.898.0<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 21.11.2013 um 16:57 schrieb Glen de Saint G�ry<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><<a href="mailto:Glen@icann.org">Glen@icann.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">FYI<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Attached please find the finalised GAC communique from <o:p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Buenos Aires.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">The communique will be posted on the GAC Website later today.<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Glen de Saint G�ry<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">GNSO Secretariat<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:gnso.secretariat@gnso.icann.org">gnso.secretariat@gnso.icann.org</a>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><FINAL_Buenos_Aires_GAC_Communique_20131120.pdf><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">gac mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:gac@gac.icann.org">gac@gac.icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gac">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gac</a><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">PHONE: 651-647-6109, FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: <a href="http://www.haven2.com">

www.haven2.com</a>, HANDLE:<o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">PHONE: 651-647-6109, FAX: 866-280-2356, WEB: <a href="http://www.haven2.com">

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