<span style="font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode','Lucida Grande',Sans-Serif; font-size: 14px"><div>Paul,</div>
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<div>-<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"> <em>it seems as if the goal is to try again on this issue having not prevailed on it in WS1 which builds the accountability structures on California law. </em></span></div>
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<div><font color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">If the subgroup lasts long enough, perhaps the issue of US jurisdiction will actually go away on it's own. :)</font></div>
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<div>http://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Drive-for-California-secession-gets-bump-from-10609366.php</div>
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<div>Ed</div>
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<div id="wmQuoteWrapper"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;">-------- Original Message --------<br />
Subject: Re: [council] FW: [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: ICANN's US jurisdiction<br />
From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>><br />
Date: Sat, November 12, 2016 2:29 pm<br />
To: "<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>>, "James M.<br />
Bladel" <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>, GNSO Council List<br />
<<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br />
<br />
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Paul et al<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What is driving this? <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Most of the discussions / arguments I’ve seen about jurisdiction stem from something specific, either a domain name or a website being taken offline or similar. ICANN’s jurisdiction in such cases is irrelevant, as if it’s done by court order it’s being enacted by either the registrar or the registry.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Other arguments and discussions seem to stem from a misunderstanding of how ICANN, registries, registrars and other parts of the ecosystem interact. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The statement seems to be conflating a lot of unrelated things and is really confusing, though I’m still a bit jetlagged, so I may have misunderstood some of it.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Maybe I’m missing something?<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Michele<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Mr Michele Neylon</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.blacknight.host/" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:blue">http://www.blacknight.host/</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:blue">http://blacknight.blog/</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:blue">http://ceo.hosting/</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">-------------------------------</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span> </b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><<a href="mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org">owner-council@gnso.icann.org</a>> on behalf of "<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>><br />
<b>Date: </b>Friday 11 November 2016 at 13:54<br />
<b>To: </b>James Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>, GNSO Council List <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br />
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [council] FW: [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: ICANN's US jurisdiction<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">Thanks James. Great seeing you and everyone else this past week. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">Just an FYI for those not participating in WS2-Jurisdiction, this ICANNxit idea has been pushed very hard by Parminder and others on the list. As we all know, the accountability reforms of WS1 are all predicated on California law, so this idea seems outside of the scope of WS2 since WS2 wasn't meant to dismantle WS1. Further complicating things, there is now a crowd in WS2-Jurisdiction pushing for the idea that ICANN should be "immune" from the courts; essentially the opposite of accountability. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">Now for the commentary: I hope that if either of these bad ideas make their way into the final reports (however unlikely that such would occur), that the GNSO at least would stand in the way of adoption -- even if such a stand were against the tide of ICANN orthodoxy prevalent at the moment of voting.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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Subject: [council] FW: [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: ICANN's US jurisdiction<br />
From: "James M. Bladel" <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">jbladel@godaddy.com</span></a>><br />
Date: Wed, November 09, 2016 3:08 am<br />
To: GNSO Council List <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">council@gnso.icann.org</span></a>><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Council colleagues –</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">See below for a statement published on the CCWG-ACCT mailing list.</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Thank you,</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">J.</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"> </span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span> </b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</span></u></a>> on behalf of parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">parminder@itforchange.net</span></u></a>><br />
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 7:31<br />
<b>To: </b>CCWG Accountability <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</span></u></a>><br />
<b>Subject: </b>[CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: ICANN's US jurisdiction</span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">All<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">I thought this may be relevant to those on this list. Regard, parminder<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">-------- Forwarded Message -------- <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;">ICANN's US jurisdiction<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div align="right" class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;text-align:right"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><b>Date: </b><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;">Wed, 9 Nov 2016 07:23:40 +0530<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;">parminder <a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank"> <u><span style="color:blue"><parminder@itforchange.net></span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</span></u></a> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue"><governance@lists.igcaucus.org></span></u></a>, BestBitsList <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue"><bestbits@lists.bestbits.net></span></u></a>, Forum@Justnetcoalition. Org <a href="mailto:forum@justnetcoalition.org" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:blue"><forum@justnetcoalition.org></span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">All<br />
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As you know, the issue of jurisdiction of ICANN is under consideration at ICANN's community process (in the accountability track where there is a sub group discussing this issue). ICANN is currently meeting in Hyderabad, India, from 3rd to 9th November.<br />
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Today, on the last day of ICANN's Hyderabad meeting, the enclosed statement was issued by key Indian civil society organisations engaged with Internet governance issues, supported by two key global networks involved in this area. The statement expresses the urgent need for transiting ICANN from being under the jurisdiction of one country, presenting the rationale of why this is important to do. It also lists some possible options of doing so, towards beginning a serious action-oriented deliberation on this very important matter. Unlike what is often understood, the jurisdiction issue is not just a matter of sovereign prestige and self respect of the states but concerns vital matters impacting people's rights. This is especially so as the society gets more and more digitised in all areas.<br />
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We welcome comments and feedback.<br />
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The statement has been issued by the following Indian civil society organisations. <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="http://cis-india.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Centre for Internet and Society</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, Bangalore <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="http://www.itforchange.net/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">IT for Change</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, Bangalore <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Movement_of_India" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Free Software Movement of India</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, Hyderabad <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="http://www.knowledgecommons.in/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Society for Knowledge Commons</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, New Delhi<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="http://defindia.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Digital Empowerment Foundation</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, New Delhi<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="http://www.delhiscienceforum.net/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Delhi Science Forum</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, New Delhi<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">Software Freedom Law Center India</span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, New Delhi<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="https://twnetwork.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Third World Network - India</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">, New Delhi<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">It is supported by the following global networks:<o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="https://www.apc.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Association For Progressive Communications</span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><u><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy"><a href="http://justnetcoalition.org/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Just Net Coalition </span></a></span></u><br />
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<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">We will soon expand this effort to enlist more global support.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black">Best, Parminder</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div>
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