<div><div dir="auto">I will hold my response (and I certainly do have one) until we identify the proper forum and method of considering these issues.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Greg</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 4:12 PM <a href="mailto:cw@christopherwilkinson.eu">cw@christopherwilkinson.eu</a> <<a href="mailto:cw@christopherwilkinson.eu">cw@christopherwilkinson.eu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Eh bien, noyer le poisson.</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br></div><div>CW<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 26 Apr 2019, at 20:11, Jonathan Zuck <<a href="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org" target="_blank">JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_-5881998074629803379Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Folks,</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Let's table this discussion until we can have a more thorough exploration of the issues. Email is a terrible way in which to have such a discussion. Threads get lost, broken, etc. and everyone is looking at this from a very narrow perspective. We owe it to our constituency to take a broader view and to spend the time getting it right.</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Jonathan</div><div id="m_-5881998074629803379appendonsend" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"></div><hr style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;display:inline-block;width:1336.71875px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important"></span><div id="m_-5881998074629803379divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span class="m_-5881998074629803379Apple-converted-space"> </span>GTLD-WG <<a href="mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank">gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> on behalf of Maureen Hilyard <<a href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" target="_blank">maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="m_-5881998074629803379Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, April 26, 2019 1:27 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="m_-5881998074629803379Apple-converted-space"> </span>George Kirikos<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="m_-5881998074629803379Apple-converted-space"> </span>CPWG<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="m_-5881998074629803379Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] renewal of .org registry</font><div> </div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir="ltr">George<div><br></div><div>Are these end-user issues that apply to the comment that the CPWG initially proposed to add to the registry submissions about the pricing of domains? We seem to have gotten a bit off track. </div><div><br></div><div>Maureen<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="m_-5881998074629803379x_gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="m_-5881998074629803379x_gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 6:35 AM George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank">icann@leap.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="m_-5881998074629803379x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi folks,<br><br>On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 11:57 AM Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>> wrote:<br>> Finally, this concern about protecting small non-profits from paying big bucks for domain names would seem a lot more genuine if it included support for price caps in the resale market (i.e., the secondary market or aftermarket).<br><br>You're conflating 2 different issues, Greg. The registry operators<br>charge *fees* for registry services (i.e. managing a central database,<br>the zone file, the nameservers that spit back the nameservers for the<br>various domain names in that registry). The market value of those<br>services are below $1/yr/domain (e.g. 70 cents per domain per year for<br>the .IN ccTLD, as per their recent tender won by Neustar).<br><br><a href="http://domainincite.com/23976-neustar-completes-in-migration" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://domainincite.com/23976-neustar-completes-in-migration</a><br><br>The secondary market or aftermarket is a marketplace for the asset<br>value of the domain names themselves, which is an entirely different<br>market than that for registry services.<br><br>To understand this distinction, consider a trademark registry, like<br>the USPTO, which has a fee structure for the services they provide for<br>the registration and maintenance of trademarks. Those fees are<br>entirely unrelated to the value of the trademark itself. A trademark<br>owned by Google for "GOOGLE" or by Nike for "JUST DO IT" has set fees,<br>and Google or Nike are free to sell, assign, license, etc. those<br>trademarks to others at whatever the market will bear. Companies like<br>Hilco Streambank routinely auction off the IP of companies, including<br>their trademarks, see:<br><br><a href="https://www.hilcostreambank.com/closed-deals" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.hilcostreambank.com/closed-deals</a><br><br>and of course, owners of TMs do these kinds of transactions all the<br>time. For example, Hooters sold their trademark for $60 million.<br><br><a href="https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2001/04/09/story1.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2001/04/09/story1.html</a><br><br>The same comparison exists for a land registry and houses. Or a<br>copyright registry, and the copyrighted works. The story of the<br>Beatles catalog makes interesting reading:<br><br><a href="https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/7662519/beatles-catalog-paul-mccartney-brief-history-ownership" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/7662519/beatles-catalog-paul-mccartney-brief-history-ownership</a><br><br>and that catalog only has value due to the copyrights (once those<br>copyrights expire, the works fall into the public domain, and the<br>works are free for everyone to use).<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br>George Kirikos<br>416-588-0269<br><a href="http://www.leap.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.leap.com/</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>CPWG mailing list<br><a href="mailto:CPWG@icann.org" target="_blank">CPWG@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg</a><br></blockquote></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline!important">CPWG mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><a href="mailto:CPWG@icann.org" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">CPWG@icann.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Greg Shatan</font><div><a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank"><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">greg@isoc-ny.org</font></a></div><div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">President, ISOC-NY</font></div><div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><i>"The Internet is for everyone"</i></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>