<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">Lots of solemn promises by the Amazon organisation to ACTO. The fact is and remains there is no claim of a subverted process. So I'm even money the string will be delegated.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">I have no standing to advise ACTO but if I could I'd tell 'em shake on the offer, count your fingers and hope for the best. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">Now, for this group, I'd advise be mute without malice. And sit on your hands.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">CAS </div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br>==============================<br><i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Carlton A Samuels</font></i><br><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Mobile: 876-818-1799<br><font color="#33CC00">Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround</font></i></font><br>=============================</div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 10:23 AM Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Thanks Carlton and
Jonathan, for your comments on this. But it is still unclear to
me whether or not these pics are anything more than window
dressing. I wonder whether any recommendations we might make
would have any hope of making a difference. <br>
</font></p>
<p style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:300;line-height:1.4rem;font-size:16px;margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;display:block;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Just as a reminder, the PIC proposal includes, in
addition to the creation of a joint Steering Committee (under the
control of Amazon.org), the following commitments:</p>
<ol style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:300;margin:0px 0px 1.25rem;padding:0px 0px 0px 30px;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">
<li style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:300;line-height:1.4rem;margin:0px 0px 15px 20px">"Not use as domain names in each .AMAZON<span> </span><abbr title="Top Level Domain" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:inherit;unicode-bidi:bidi-override;direction:ltr;border-bottom:1px dotted rgb(153,153,153);text-decoration:none">TLD</abbr><span> </span>those
terms that have a primary and well-recognized significance to
the culture and heritage of the Amazonia region;</li>
<li style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:300;line-height:1.4rem;margin:0px 0px 15px 20px">Provide nine domain names in each .AMAZON<span> </span><abbr title="Top Level Domain" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:inherit;unicode-bidi:bidi-override;direction:ltr;border-bottom:1px dotted rgb(153,153,153);text-decoration:none">TLD</abbr><span> </span>to
be used for non-commercial purposes by ACTO and its member
states to enhance the visibility of the region; and</li>
<li style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:300;line-height:1.4rem;margin:0px 0px 15px 20px">Block from all use up to 1500 domain names
in each .AMAZON<span> </span><abbr title="Top Level Domain" style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:inherit;unicode-bidi:bidi-override;direction:ltr;border-bottom:1px dotted rgb(153,153,153);text-decoration:none">TLD</abbr><span> </span>that
have a primary and well recognized significance to the culture
and heritage of the Amazonia region"</li>
</ol>
<div class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361moz-cite-prefix">Marita</div>
<div class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361moz-cite-prefix">On 9/29/2019 6:25 PM, Jonathan Zuck
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
If I might moderate this a TINY bit, I can confirm that the
cctrt found enforcement to be woefully underwhelming and part of
the problem was structural. Compliance lacks some of the
mechanisms needed to look atcontracted parties wholistically.
Hense some of the recommendations from the RT.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
That said, I suspect these particular ones are different as they
are mostly about reserve strings by a registry that doesn't lack
for cash. I think a lot of pics are abandoned because of money
and every registry, with few exceptions, migrates towards the
generic to maximize sales. (there are recs in that as well). In
THIS case, money is no object but the utility of the domain is.
In other words, if the demands are Too high, the utility of the
domain suffers but I believe that will all be resolved before
launch and that enforcement, in this particular case, won't be a
problem.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
Just MY two cents.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
Jonathan<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
<span id="gmail-m_1510606318341078361OutlookSignature">
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
Jonathan Zuck<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
Executive Director<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
Innovators Network Foundation<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:black">
<a href="http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org" target="_blank">www.Innovatorsnetwork.org</a></div>
</span><br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_1510606318341078361divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
GTLD-WG <a class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank"><gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> on
behalf of Carlton Samuels <a class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com" target="_blank"><carlton.samuels@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 29, 2019 12:07:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marita Moll <a class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank"><mmoll@ca.inter.net></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CPWG <a class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org" target="_blank"><cpwg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] reference list re: amazon
PICs</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
Hi Marita:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
To answer you directly, yes, I do not see any useful
movement coming. So conserve the energy.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
We have been down the road before. The history is that
during the horsetrading of what was the 2012 round, this
entire idea and process was, IMHO, just something thrown on
for 'feel good', for stickiness and to get ICANN over a
hump. The right "optics" was the most important objective.
And the applicants for strings grabbed it like a drowning
man grabs at straws floating in the ocean. It worked.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
Voluntary or contracted, it does not matter. The problem is
enforcement. And, the mechanisms for enforcement. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
First of all, the voluntary ones were just that. Except the
sleight of hand that somehow their status was elided to
become "enforceable" under contract. The nature of the
"contracted" ones are that they make up and are part of the
business model of the registry. Those present a few
difficulties for me.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
First, I'm philosophically opposed to ICANN regulating a
business model. Because that inures to the position that
ICANN is picking 'winners and losers' in the DNS
marketplace. You can't be both free marketer and what
amounts to being a freebooter at once. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
Next, and the substantive point. In respect of PICDRP, look
at who has standing to make the complaint. And, to be the
principal adjudicator of said complaint. And, who bears the
costs for that adjudication. Always follow the money. For
in the end, it is the most compelling factor.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
In my view, there are more than may reasons why this is a
dog that won't hunt. First, ICANN org has shown very little
appetite to enforce these contracts to the "t". And if that
must be done at their cost, I can build you a thousand
reasons to find that 'unhelpful'. Bottomline, diminishing
returns, much ado about nothing. And, not worth the energy
of the few.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
My 2 cents.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
Best,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
-Carlton</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
==============================<br>
<i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Carlton
A Samuels</font></i><br>
<font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Mobile:
876-818-1799<br>
<font color="#33CC00">Strategy, Process,
Governance, Assessment & Turnaround</font></i></font><br>
=============================</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:13
AM Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">So, is your
recommendation that we just not bother getting into
this? You will know that there is a pic dispute
resolution process. You are saying this is not
adequate?</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">It is a
serious question. I don't have a strong sense yet,
from the community, about our role in this process. In
fact, in the processes offered to address it, the
ICANN application comment form (see below) it looks
like only individuals can send in comments.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita</font><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361gmail-m_8052160988481842190moz-cite-prefix">On
9/27/2019 12:45 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
The PICs live and die on enforcement. Long ago, I
declared them to be not 'worth a bucket of warm
spit'.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
You needn't be clairvoyant or particularly prescient
to see the enforcement mechanism would have been
useless for those who are aggrieved unless there are
third party enforcement rights of action. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">
-Carlton</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_1510606318341078361gmail-m_8052160988481842190gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
==============================<br>
<i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Carlton
A Samuels</font></i><br>
<font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Mobile:
876-818-1799<br>
<font color="#33CC00">Strategy,
Process, Governance, Assessment
& Turnaround</font></i></font><br>
=============================</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 26, 2019
at 10:48 AM Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hello CPWG members. As requested please see
below the primary and secondary sources that
were used in researching the Amazon PICs issue
<br>
</p>
<p>Primary sources:<br>
</p>
<p>*Approved Board resolutions; special meeting of
the Board May 15, 2019</p>
<p><a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-2019-05-15-en#1.c" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-2019-05-15-en#1.c<br>
</a></p>
<p>*Text of .amazon PICS -- E-mail to ICANN Board</p>
<p><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/huseman-to-chalaby-17apr19-en.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/huseman-to-chalaby-17apr19-en.pdf</a></p>
<p>*Marby to Zaluar correspondence -- June 13,
2019</p>
<p><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/marby-to-zaluar-13jun19-en.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/marby-to-zaluar-13jun19-en.pdf</a></p>
<p>*ICANN Application comment form</p>
<p><a href="https://gtldcomment.icann.org/applicationcomment/login" target="_blank">https://gtldcomment.icann.org/applicationcomment/login</a><br>
<br>
</p>
<p>Secondary sources:</p>
<p>*Domain Mondo's weekly Internet domain news
review June 2, 2019<br>
</p>
<p><a href="http://www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html" target="_blank">www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html<br>
</a></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>*Hold your horses; the last wave of comments on
.amazon hasn't started yet</p>
<p>Kevin Murphy May 24, 2019</p>
<p><a href="http://domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet" target="_blank">domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet<br>
</a><br>
</p>
<p>*Amazon wins; ICANN on verge of approving
.amazon despite government outrage</p>
<p>Kevin Murphy, May 19, 2019<br>
</p>
<p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/brcrb7/icann_on_verge_of_approving_amazon_for_amazon_inc/" target="_blank"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">domainincite.com/24260-amazon-wins-icann-on-verge-of-approving-amazon-despite-government-outrage</font></a></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">*.amazon
domains are getting closer</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Konstantinos
Zournas May 29, 2019
<br>
</font></p>
<p><a href="https://onlinedomain.com/2019/05/20/domain-name-news/amazon-domain-names-are-getting-closer/" target="_blank"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">https://onlinedomain.com/2019/05/20/domain-name-news/amazon-domain-names-are-getting-closer/<br>
</font></a><br>
</p>
<p>*Jeff Bezos finally gets .Amazon after DNS
overlord runs out of excuses to delay decision
any further</p>
<p>Kieran McCarthy May 21, 2019<br>
</p>
<p><a href="https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/21/bezos_finally_gets_amazon/" target="_blank">https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/21/bezos_finally_gets_amazon/<br>
</a></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>*ICANN says Amazon In's application for .amazon
TLD can proceed following 30 days of public
comment</p>
<p>May 20, 2019<br>
</p>
<p><a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/" target="_blank">www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/<br>
</a><br>
</p>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
CPWG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CPWG@icann.org" target="_blank">CPWG@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
processing of your personal data for purposes of
subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the
ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
You can visit the Mailman link above to change your
membership status or configuration, including
unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a
vacation), and so
on._______________________________________________<br>
GTLD-WG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank">GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg</a><br>
<br>
Working Group direct URL: <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
processing of your personal data for purposes of
subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the
ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
You can visit the Mailman link above to change your
membership status or configuration, including
unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a
vacation), and so on.</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div>