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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I wonder if we might also recommend that ALL contracts have "non-transferable" clauses included. Just to keep some control over situations like this. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Bill Jouris</div><div><br></div>
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On Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 12:05:50 PM PST, John Laprise <jlaprise@gmail.com> wrote:
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<div><div id="yiv5304546531"><div><div>See 7.6.j.iv<div><br clear="none"></div><div>We may not be able to stop the transfer but may be able to make the case that the transfer is not on the public interest and get the board to amend the contract.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div>Sent from my Pixel 3XL<br clear="none"><br clear="none">John Laprise, Ph.D.</div></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote"><div class="yiv5304546531yqt9157810402" id="yiv5304546531yqtfd46012"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 12:43 PM Kaili Kan <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:kankaili@gmail.com">kankaili@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Very interesting indeed. Exactly what At-Large is for !</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>However, sorry that have to apologize for this meting, having a bad cold. :(</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Kaili<br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 1:13 AM Maureen Hilyard <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com">maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Sounds like an interesting CPWG meeting coming up :)<div><br clear="none"></div><div>M</div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 5:39 AM Bartlett Morgan <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:me@bartlettmorgan.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:me@bartlettmorgan.com">me@bartlettmorgan.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div>Imagine ICANN getting the pants sued off of it if it does...<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv5304546531m_-1215888329019664440gmail-m_-7335203051679863822gmail-m_2859570185894227996AppleMailSignature"><div>-</div><div>Bart </div>Sent from my mobile</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">On 20 Nov 2019, at 11:28, Evan Leibovitch <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:evan@telly.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>That's what I mean, re-delegating it from PIR to a real nonprofit. <div><br clear="none"></div><div>I will check, and maybe others can help.... but I believe that there is a clause in the registry agreement that allows ICANN to terminate if there is a major change in the status of the owner (in this case, PIR changing from nonprofit to for-profit). </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Of course ICANN has rarely if ever acted on this capability, but I believe it exists. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div>___________________<br clear="none">Evan Leibovitch, Toronto<br clear="none">@evanleibovitch/@el56</div></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed., Nov. 20, 2019, 9:26 a.m. Eduardo Diaz, <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;font-size:large;">Evan:</div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;font-size:large;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;font-size:large;">How .ORG can be re-delegated if it does not belong to ISOC but PIR?</div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;font-size:large;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;font-size:large;">-ed</div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 8:34 AM Evan Leibovitch <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:evan@telly.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">Or there could be totally new advice asking ICANN to re-delegate .ORG back to a nonprofit.<br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">It has that authority.</div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://gizmodo.com/private-equity-ghouls-buy-non-profit-that-handles-org-1839860118">https://gizmodo.com/private-equity-ghouls-buy-non-profit-that-handles-org-1839860118</a></div><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br clear="none"></div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 at 17:25, John Laprise <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com">jlaprise@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div>On the advice we issued on the change in contractual terms. It's within ALAC's remit to issue advice on anything and this is exactly the kind of situation that allows us to nimbly address a situation. George Kirikos mentioned the s contingency in the list but by that time I'm pretty sure he had established himself as shrill and was in the process of being report to the ombudsman. We can ask the board to examine options here because we issued advice in good faith and expectation of ISOC being a good Steward of .org. selling it off to a VC firm was not something I considered likely and had I, would not have advocated in the way I did.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div>Sent from my Pixel 3XL<br clear="none"><br clear="none">John Laprise, Ph.D.</div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote"><div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 1:22 PM Alan Greenberg <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank" href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
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On what issue John?<br clear="none">
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Alan<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv5304546531gmail_quote">On November 19, 2019 1:31:18 PM EST, John Laprise <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com">jlaprise@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;">I agree with Evan. This is an astounding sort sighted deal by ISOC which essentially squandered the trust of it's membership for financial gain. Trust is the most precious commodity of any non
profit and hard to regain once lost.<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;">Furthermore, ALAC and CPWG should urgently amend our advice on the contractual issue to reflect new situation. I am no longer in support on this issue.</div>
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<div>Sent from my Pixel 3XL<br clear="none">
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John Laprise, Ph.D.</div>
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<div class="yiv5304546531gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 3:58 AM Evan Leibovitch <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:evan@telly.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 at 09:16, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg" target="_blank" href="mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg">Hadia@tra.gov.eg</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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I would certainly assume that ISOC got a very decent amount of money from Ethos for the deal to go forward. At this point I would assume that ISOC has insured its way forward. However, what is still to be seen is the effect on the .org prices, hopefully going
forward they would have special prices for non profits.</blockquote>
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<div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
Two factors come to mind in considering the long term effects of the sale, over and above the financial-stability component of which we are all aware. Consider:<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><b>The substance:</b><br clear="none">
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);">PIR was more than just an ISOC asset. The Internet Society was custodian of the only global <span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">top-level domain</span>
that was, by nature and its very name, acting in the public interest. In a sea of<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> TLD</span><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
</span>sharks<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">,</span> dot-org could be seen as a body that brought both financial stability to ISOC and social responsibility among the registries. It<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">s
size and </span>nonprofit <span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">status</span> would keep costs down and corporate direction serving a social mission.<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
Its competitive presence could tamp down the excesses of the industry.</span></span><br clear="none">
<span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"></span></div>
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);">And now that's gone. More important than the divestment of PIR is its change from nonprofit to Just Another Shareholder-Value-Maximizing part of the domain ecosystem, its uniqueness vanished in
a<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">n</span> instant. In the aim of maximizing its own revenue ISOC has
<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
eliminated from</span> the <span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
the Internet the only publicly-accessible </span>nonprofit <span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
g</span><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">TLD</span>.
<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
</span>Gone is th<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">is</span>
<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
substantial </span>voice of public-interest sanity within the registry community, replaced by an entity barely more ethically motivated than Donuts. As a dot-org
<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
"</span>owner<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">"</span>, this hurts personally. But as someone trying to advance Internet domains as a component of progress, this hurts on a global scale.</span></div>
<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br clear="none">
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">Stewardship of</span> a socially-motivated registry was one of ISOC's
<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
core</span> global functions IMO<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"></span>. With that gone<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">,</span>
<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
so is </span>part of ISOC's value.<br clear="none">
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<div><b><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">The process:</span></span></b></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br clear="none">
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"></span>The path that led to the
<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
divestment of PIR</span>, both before and after<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> the decision had been made</span>, has laid bare a core ISOC culture that is the opposite of the openness it asks the world
to embrace.<span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> At a level of fiscal responsibility, ISOC's action was exactly what one would expect any for-profit entity to do. Maximize benefit through a secretive process
that catches everyone unaware -- not just of the transaction but of the urgency to do it,<br clear="none">
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">Except ISOC is not a for-profit entity. It displays itself to the world as a community body that encourages
involvement at a personal, regional, institutional or national scale. It has carefully crafted and evolved a Chapters Advisory Council explicitly designed to provide management with the view from the grassroots, alongside a parallel Council for corporate participants.</span><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
This was combined with global virtual events such as InterCommunity that were created to give ISOC a global awareness of what was needed to promote a more-open Internet. And it has always had an individual-membership program, which isn't really talked about
these days as these "members" have neither any costs nor any benefits.<br clear="none">
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">None of these mechanisms were employed, none of these entities consulted, before or after the decision, even
under NDA. The community wasn't even aware that PIR was being shopped around. As a result, there was no open solicitation, no publicly-competitive process, no opportunity for any other firm to make a counter-offer that might keep PIR nonprofit. We'll never
know. Or maybe it wasn't shopped around and someone just made ISOC an offer it couldn't refuse.</span><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> But ISOC isn't Jack Woltz. The community had no idea of any sense
of urgency to sell PIR, and certainly was never consulted about the ethics or consequences of turning PIR for-profit.</span><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> The common nonprofit practice of having major
decisions ratified by stakeholders at an AGM is also nowhere in sight.</span><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br clear="none">
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<div style="margin-left:40px;"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">So now we know the reality of ISOC's corporate culture. Promote openness and consultation when convenient,
but be opaque when it matters.</span></span></div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">I don't know if ISOC considers me a stakeholder, or for that matter anyone else on this list, any Chapter or any Organization Member.
In fact right now I have no idea who ISOC considers its stakeholders to be; it certainly didn't consult any before the fact or ask for any blessings afterwards. Not even informally. So who shows up at the AGM? Just the Trustees?<br clear="none">
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<div><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br clear="none">
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<div><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">In any case, the deal is essentially done. ISOC clearly appears to have assured its financial stability, which is certainly a Good
Thing. But with a crown jewel of the Internet fading away and the shallowness of its commitment to openness and community exposed in the process, it is legitimate to ask whether ISOC has sold more than a registry.</span></span></div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">We won't know the answer to that for a while</span></span><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);"><span class="yiv5304546531gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma, sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
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<div>- Evan<br clear="none">
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:center;"><div style="text-align:left;">Evan Leibovitch, <span style="font-size:12.8px;">Toronto Canada</span></div><div style="text-align:left;"><span style="font-size:12.8px;">@evanleibovitch or </span><span style="font-size:12.8px;">@el56</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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