<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Greg,<div><br></div><div>I think it's a good idea to revisit your statement ...</div><div>"<span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">More specifically, ownership of .ORG by a non-profit has a nice symmetry to it. It's easy to like, people are used to it, and it may even stop bad things from happening. But ... there is no reason to presume that ownership by a non-profit is truly in the best interests of .ORG, its users or the general public. If there's a reason to say that ownership by Ethos Capital will serve those interests well, it will need to come from facts and action (much of it from Ethos, PIR and even ISOC); we can't presume that either."</span></div><div><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">I believe it's a mistake to dismiss the organized grassroots resistance to the Ethos/iSOC transaction with the comment "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">It's easy to like, people are used to it, and it may even stop bad things from happening".</span></font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><font color="#000000"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">There's a principle that's emerging from highly respected community members including well respected people like </span></font><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">Esther Dyson and </span><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">Katherine Maher. The principle is "</span></font><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">End users benefit from </span></font><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">a long-term commitment to the open and noncommercial internet".</font></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">There's also historical precedence that this principle was achieved in practice when ICANN gave the stewardship of PIR to iSOC in 2003. </font></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">End users have enjoyed a long history of benefitting from an open and noncommercial internet ... <a href="http://linux.org">linux.org</a>, Free Software Foundation (<a href="http://www.fsf.org">www.fsf.org</a>), <a href="http://wikipedia.org">wikipedia.org</a> ... and on ... and on. This is a fundamental aspect of the Internet that benefits end users. It's important that this benefit to end users is acknowledged ... and protected. It's not simply a warm fuzzy feeling. Benefits to end users of an open and noncommercial internet are real and often threatened by commercial interests. </font></div><div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><font color="#333333">The propose $1 Billion transaction between Ethos and iSOC breaks the principle of ICANN's longterm commitment to a open and noncommercial interest entrusted to iSOC in 2003. It's more than just "nice </font></font><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">symmetry" as you state. </span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">I think At-Large's reputation would benefit if we acknowledge the well established benefits that end users receive from "a long term commitment to the open and noncommercial internet" in any statement that comes out of this discussion. </font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">Cheers!</font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif">David </font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#333333" face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 5:31 PM Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I agree that our voice needs to be heard. But what is that voice going to say?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The Malthouse piece is a terrible blueprint for what that voice should be saying. Frankly, it's misguided and even offensive. If anything, we should be pushing back on it -- but by putting out different and better ideas, not by getting into a flame war.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't support a hasty conclusion that the public interest aspect of .ORG is being abandoned (easily or not). At best, there is cause for concern. But a rush to judgment is not the way to deal with those concerns. We have the opportunity to frame the discussion, by asking solid, well-grounded questions, by proposing some principles/guideposts, and by providing advice on how to resolve these concerns -- which could mean a sale that allays our concerns and that goes through, or a sale that substantiates our concerns and doesn't go through.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">More specifically, ownership of .ORG by a non-profit has a nice symmetry to it. It's easy to like, people are used to it, and it may even stop bad things from happening. But ... there is no reason to presume that ownership by a non-profit is truly in the best interests of .ORG, its users or the general public. If there's a reason to say that ownership by Ethos Capital will serve those interests well, it will need to come from facts and action (much of it from Ethos, PIR and even ISOC); we can't presume that either. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We need to be the voice of the end-user, a voice of reason, and a voice for the public interest. We need to sort the wheat from the chaff. We may want to have our own meeting with ISOC, PIR and Ethos to get at the facts and dispel the myths. As ALAC/At-Large, we have the platform to ask for that.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If we join the pitchfork-and-torches crowd, we lose our unique voice and place in the ecosystem. We become followers, not leaders. We become enablers (and even spreaders) of FUD, rather than dispellers of FUD.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">So, let's find our voice. But first we need to find our collective thoughts.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best regards,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Greg Shatan</font><div><a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank"><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">greg@isoc-ny.org</font></a></div><div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">President, ISOC-NY</font></div><div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><i>"The Internet is for everyone"</i></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 4:50 PM Marita Moll <<a href="mailto:mmoll@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">mmoll@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I am afraid I am
starting to feel this way as well. The end user voice that we
are here to provide is becoming a glaring absence. And we need
to do more than ask for a seat on the PIR board. We should be
joining our voice to others asking why and how the public
interest aspect of this corner of the ecosystem can be so easily
abandoned. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita </font><br>
</p>
<div>On 1/8/2020 4:33 AM, Vittorio Bertola
via CPWG wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Il 2020-01-07 22:22 <a href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu" target="_blank">lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</a> ha scritto:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px 0.4em;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div>FYI
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20200105_hilyard_has_a_historic_chance_to_activate_icann_at_large/" target="_blank">Hilyard Has a Historic Chance to
Activate ICANN At-Large</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>The main reason why almost 20 years ago we fought to create
the ALAC and preserve some form of user representation in
ICANN after the cancellation of the original At Large election
mechanism was exactly to guarantee a voice for the global
public interest of billions of Internet users, against
possible capture or failure of ICANN's industry
self-regulation model. I have rarely seen a case in which that
global interest is so clear, so uniformly shared across the
community and so loudly voiced. IMHO, failing to act in this
case would easily become evidence in favour of those who
challenge ALAC's usefulness and ability to fulfill its
mission.</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"><span>-- <br>
vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] <a href="http://bertola.eu" target="_blank">bertola.eu</a>
<--------<br>
--------> now blogging & more at <a href="http://bertola.eu/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://bertola.eu/</a>
<--------</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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