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I don't understand. The point is not to have another wealthy non profit but to have an alternative to ORG, run by a nonprofit. The current numbers aren't relevant. The fact that they are currently expensive can also be remedied. I'm not suggesting this INSTEAD
of revisions to the ORG agreement but in addition to to them. </div>
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Jonathan Zuck<br>
Executive Director<br>
Innovators Network Foundation<br>
<a href="http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org" target="_blank">www.Innovatorsnetwork.org</a></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Greg Shatan <greg@isoc-ny.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 13, 2020 11:16:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CPWG <cpwg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CPWG] . NGO</font>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:16px">There's no plan for making money out of a TLD with 10 million registrations that can be applied equally
to domains with less than 4,000 registrations. </span> <br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Greg Shatan</font>
<div><a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank"><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">greg@isoc-ny.org</font></a></div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">President, ISOC-NY</font></div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><i>"The Internet is for everyone"</i></font></div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:57 PM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div>.NGO & .ONG have insignificant numbers of registrations compared to .ORG<br>
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<span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">TLDs </span><span style="font-size:16.6667px; font-family:sans-serif"><br>
1.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.org</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif"><br>
2 </span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">. ngo <br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">3 . </span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">. ong
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">4.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn--clavg</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif"><br>
5.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn--ilb6bla6a2e<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">6.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn--nqv7f<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">7.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn-nqv7fs00ema<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">DUMs <br>
</span><span style="font-size:16.6667px; font-family:sans-serif">1.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.org-
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">10M</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif"><br>
2 . </span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.ngo -</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">3,800
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">3.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">. ong-</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">3,800<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">4.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn--clavg
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">- 1,100<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">5.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn--nqv7f
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">- 235<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">6.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn--ilb6bla6a2e
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">- 78<br>
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">7.</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">.xn-nqv7fs00ema
</span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif">- N/ <br>
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Source: <a href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/pir-isoc-ethos-capital-10jan20-en.pdf" target="_blank">
https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/pir-isoc-ethos-capital-10jan20-en.pdf</a><br>
Kindest regards,<br>
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Olivier<br>
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P.S. Also see: <a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20200113_a_stronger_pir_and_dot_org_standing_behind_our_commitments/" target="_blank">
http://www.circleid.com/posts/20200113_a_stronger_pir_and_dot_org_standing_behind_our_commitments/</a></span><span style="font-size:17.5px; font-family:sans-serif"></span><br>
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<div>On 13/01/2020 18:01, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Perhaps we could go the opposite direction. Have PIR keep .NGO and .ONG while divesting .ORG to a non-profit? If they have a plan for making money out of .ORG, they ought to be able to apply it equally to the other TLDs. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">Just a thought.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Bill Jouris</div>
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<div>On Monday, January 13, 2020, 07:34:24 AM PST, Roberto Gaetano <a href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com" target="_blank">
<roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com></a> wrote: </div>
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<div>Be aware that as of today the operation of .NGO/.ONG is not a profitable business. Very few registrars sell them, mostly because of the added complication of the validation step (the registrant is required to be a proper NGO), the bundle (the registration
in either .NGO or .ONG will automatically allocate also the other one) and the high price (it is high to cover the additional costs for the items above). On top of that, a minimum fee has to be paid to ICANN regardless whether domain names are sold or not.
<div>I am not aware of any changes in PIR to address this problem, so it is fairly likely that a new owner of .NGO/.ONG will be in bad shape, because it will not have the profitable .ORG to support the losing business, nor will it have any power to exert onto
the backend provider to force them to support a TLD that has very specific additional requirements.</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Roberto<br clear="none">
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<div>On 13.01.2020, at 16:12, Evan Leibovitch <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:evan@telly.org" target="_blank">evan@telly.org</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif; color:rgb(11,83,148)">I floated this exact idea on another mailing list Dec 11....</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif; color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif; color:rgb(11,83,148)">that as a condition of acquiring .ORG. Ethos divested of .NGO/.ONG to a community body, and then provided a fund to assist the brand-altering costs of any nonprofits that wanted to move. In the
forum it was presented, it was flat out rejected as a half measure when the objective was to stop the sale --- so I never pursued it further. In fact, since .NGO already has a vetting process in place (which could be modified in order to scale) it could more
reliably be a genuine no-freeloader place for nonprofits.<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif; color:rgb(11,83,148)">- Evan</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 10:00, Jonathan Zuck <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org" target="_blank">JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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Working on an outline for a response from us on this whole ORG thing and had a crazy idea. What if we suggest that PIR be asked to divest itself of NGO and award that to the new nonprofit. Right now PIR have a kind of monopoly on the field with those two as
well as FOUNDATION. </div>
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We've had a lot of discussion about making sure there is a public interest driven registry and a safe place for the nonprofit community. NGO already has a lot of those requirements in place and could be relaunched with a more specific set of commitments in
the contract. We could even figure out how to minimize the NGO presence in the secondary market. </div>
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<div style="color:rgb(33,33,33); background-color:rgb(255,255,255); text-align:left">
PIR having NGO as a competitor might help keep them in line as well. </div>
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Thoughts? </div>
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<div style="text-align:left">Evan Leibovitch, <span style="font-size:12.8px">Toronto Canada</span></div>
<div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12.8px">@evanleibovitch or </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">@el56</span></div>
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