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<div style="font-size: 14px;"><span style="background-color: white;">Dear All,</span></div>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><font size="3" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px;"> Please find the MP3 recording for the Cross-Community
Working Group on Use of Country/Territory Names as TLDs meeting held on </font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Monday 20 April 2015</font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px;"> at 06:00 UTC
at:</font><font style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px;"> </font></font><a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ccwg-unct-20apr15-en.mp3">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ccwg-unct-20apr15-en.mp3</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov"></a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jan"></a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar"></a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#apr">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#</a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#apr">apr</a></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/" target="_blank">http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/</a></font></span><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Ron Sherwood, .vi </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Annebeth Lange, .no </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><span style="background-color: white;">Laura Hutchison, .uk </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><span style="background-color: white;">Joke Braeken, .eu </span></div>
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<div>Mirjana Tasic, .rs</div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">GNSO </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Heather Forrest, IPC (Co-Chair) </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Carlos Raul Guttierez, NPOC </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Maxim Alzoba, NTAG </span></div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Cheryl Langdon-Orr </span></div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">ISO </span></div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Apologies: </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Susan Payne, IPC </span></div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">ICANN staff: </span><span style="background-color: white;"> </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Bart Boswinkel</span></div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Lars Hoffman</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Mailing list archives:</span><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ctn-crosscom/">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ctn-crosscom/</a><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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20 April 2015</span></font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="3" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">:</font></u></b></p>
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<div>Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the CCWG on Use of Country/ Territory Names as TLDs on the 20 April 2015</div>
<div> Lars Hoffmann:Good morning all.</div>
<div> Ron Sherwood:Good (very early) morning everyone</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Hello Ron and Joke, thank you for joining us.</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Sorry for the early hour, Ron - apparently there are big goings on in Costa Rica today involving Fadi and we tried to steer clear of overlapping with those activities</div>
<div> Ron Sherwood:I do understand... zzzzzz!</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Welcome, Bart!</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:Helloe everyone</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Thank you all for your timeliness - we'll wait 1 or 2 minutes to start to have another co-chair on the call</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everybody</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Welcome, Maxim - thank you for joining the call today</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Do we have adobe audio?</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:I believe so but will let Nathalie confirm</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:Yes Maxim</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:I see you have activated your mic</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):audio test positive</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi all</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:I am the call, but there is a lot of echo</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:Both you an dLars</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:no echo for me via AC atm</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:resolved</div>
<div> Ron Sherwood:No echo here on AC</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:sorry</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:here I Am</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:great, carlos - thanks!</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:We are just now getting started</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:you go Heather pls</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:ok</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:scroll control??</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:enabled</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thx</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:Annebeth lange has joined the call</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I am all OK with the BG part of the doc subject to the mnor edits and some format issues ( e.g. bottom of page 6)</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:Annebeth is not on the Audio bridge, not has emabled her mic in the AC room</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Note Deffinittion is an orphanws from the table in my view of the doc... needs a page return pre that word...</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Noted, thanks Cheryl</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):refernece to 6 on 6th page needs URL to the previous document</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I have problems with the net, and with the sound</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Exactly Bart a commin issue with readers of our previous docs../ is to bring in 'Common Use' terms (geo I admot) as "Territory" when we mean the LISTED ones...</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I donīt think you hear me</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:No we don't Annabeth</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I'm OK with the several terms used in the deffinitions lstr as Heather proposes and A BIG supporter of the Capitals for Deffined Terms use ;-)</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:Can you call me on 0047 959 11 559</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I have problems with the sound</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:So do you mean that the territories in the ISO list should be taken out, Heather and Carlos?</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Not quite, Annebeth - that we have 3 separate definitions</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:1. Country names, 2. Territory names, 3. Country and territory names</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:only in the third one we refer to the ISO list</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Understood, Bart - there are political issues here</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:It is not us deciding what is countries. When UN decide a new country, that will be on the ISO list</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:So I agree, this is politics</div>
<div> Joke Braeken:I agree Annebeth</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:And we must remember that our WG is working with c & t names as TLDs, not only as gTLDs</div>
<div> Joke Braeken:exactly</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:I agree Annebeth, and we should treat them chronologically</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:1st cctlds</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:and then, get into the gTLD workd</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:world</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:quite right, Bart- the terminology has always been an issue here</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:So what then, do you mean with countries in your suggested list 1?</div>
<div> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Agreement from me on that Bart :-)</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I agree strongly with Bart. RFC 1591 is the starting point.</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:No, it does not seem to work. COuld someone call me on 004795911559?</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:of course!</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Thanks very much Nathalie</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think it is important to stick to established facts ... thus term geopolitical might be better to ommit</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:Carlos, yes, but it is the starting point for the countries and territories. The names of the countries and territories have gotten their code FROM their name</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:Annebeth is now on te audio bidge</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Thank you Nathalia</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Nathalie....</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine::)</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:Jaap Akkerhuis has joined the call</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Carlos - old hand or new hand?</div>
<div> jaap akkehuis:Apologies for being late</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:got it</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Welcome, Jaap. Thank you for joining us</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:old hand</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:sorry</div>
<div> jaap akkehuis:The ISO standard has a definition what a country and territory is</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:agree</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:country and terrotyt according to ISO</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:no regions</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:Olga is here in Costa rica...</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):in 3166 'areas of geographical interest' and do we use 'areas of particular geopolitical interest'</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:but busy with other stuff</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):?</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:I just saw her</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:Mirjana Tasic has joined the call</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Welcome Mirjana</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:2 or 3 letter</div>
<div> Mirjana Tasic:Heloo, I am soryy I am late</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Lost me?</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Mute!</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):geopolitical is fine since it is used by ISO</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:And when new countries are created, they will get a new 2-letter code</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:introspection by Heather</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:talking so herself</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:And a 3-letter code, and a 4-letter code</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:2, 3 and 4 letter representation</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:right</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:And in my view, Carlos, they kind of identify the countries</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I do not think new territories will be established - that is historical, probably</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:iprefer the langugae of the ccNS</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:O paper</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:the codes REPRESENT country names</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:THat is OK, Carlos, as long as we agree</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I agree, Heather</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:we agree</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Carlos - would you suggest we discuss this under the heading 'two letter strings'?</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Instead of 'two-letter codes'?</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:As we have talked about earlier, we have had .com from the start. I do not think Jon Postel then took the Comores 3-letter code. In the beginning it was clear that this meant COMMERCIAL, and because of that, no confusion</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:in the ptions</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:options</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:The problems giving away the 2-letter codes not assigned, is that we then makes it impossible for new countries to have "THEIR" 2-letter code</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I think we clearly should deal with that in the options paper</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I agree, Carlos</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:right</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I understand, Heather, where we discuss the different solutions</div>
<div> jaap akkehuis:When you start to talk about using non assigned codes one should really make a difference between top level domains amd further down the tree</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:we are cler</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I agree with Jaap</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:If Jaap, you mean that those not assigned could be "free".</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:That is OK, Heater, as long as it is covered</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):do we have wording for the situation of "new ISO code created ' and gTLD is already in use?</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:I agree, Heather</div>
<div> jaap akkehuis:That is why one to make the difference between TLDs and below.</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:I would assume that any of our recommendations as a CWG are conditioned on the current use of ccTLDs with a recommendation that this be reviewed at a future point if codes are used differently</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):with 4 letters ... it is not that simple ... how to estimate demand for new subdivisions ... country want additional detalization for some reasons ... totally unpredictable ... potentially blocks all 4 letters</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:We are not in a position to guess at future ccTLD policy</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Whether something is confusing depends on its use - very difficult to pre-determine the outcome</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:What makes it difficult are the IDNs</div>
<div> Laura Hutchison:I would suggest that a precedent has already been set with countries using 2 letter codes as ccTLDs. This is understood by the end user. If we set up provisions/ protections for countries to use 3 or 4 letter codes then firstly this
would create confusion for the end user as some 3 letter codes are ccTLs and others are gTLDs; and secondly, it makes for a very restrictive system that allows ccTLDs a "bigger slice of the pie" as Annebeth just said.</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:of course Annebeth, and we should be cleqr on that</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:excellent</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:Thanks, Laura, I am happy that I am not the only one having understood it this way</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):could we refer to historical reasons to protect all 2 letters</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:I agree with Maxim</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and only of existing 3 and 4 letters?</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:No none</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:but only the assinged ones</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:all happy</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:Maxim, there is also political reasons to protect here</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:Yes I am</div>
<div> Annebeth Lange:Fine</div>
<div> Carlos Raul:Hope I can go back to sleep.....good nite. Next time at 3pm my time please</div>
<div> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):thanks Everyone</div>
<div> Ron Sherwood:Thank you all</div>
<div> Bart Boswinkel:Bye all</div>
<div> Laura Hutchison:Thanks. Bye everyone</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Thanks everyone - great progress</div>
<div> Mirjana Tasic:Bye</div>
<div> jaap akkehuis:By everymone, agan apologoes</div>
<div> Nathalie Peregrine:thank you!</div>
<div> Heather Forrest:Thanks very much for all your support, Nathalie, Bart, Lars</div>
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