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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Dear Grigori,<br><br>I admire your phantasy. But your suggestion is simply way too intelligent (albeit I like it). This is ICANN: We need SIMPLE solutions that do not interfere with ANY third parties (such as browser makers).<br><br>BTW: I don’t think this discussion is about ISO 3166 elements only. Seemingly it is about ISO 3166 and territory names (which are in some cases identical).<br><br>What bothers me a bit is that a few people (us) attempt make rules that then impact hundreds of Governments. As we see Estonia wants .est! They weren’t aware AT ALL that they couldn’t apply. The next round is 4 years away: Who knows in how many countries fruitful ideas will be born – and can’t come to life because we make rules not knowing the real demand. <br><br>My take on all of this:<br>We should first find an agreement on whether or not we WANT to find a mechanism that would:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Preserve the interest of the nations in their territory names and 3166 codes by initially exempting them from being eligible for application<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>How to enable a nation to allow a registrant to apply for such gTLD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Are there really many who demand from GAC to give up ALL protection? Remember: In the 2012 round not only ISO316 codes were prohibited, even THEIR PERMUTATIONS! So not only .DEU, but also .UDE and .EUD! As if someone might mistake EUD or UDE for Germany? Just to convince them to trash the permutation rule is a challenge probably.<br><br>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Alexander<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Grigori Saghyan<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 02, 2016 12:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> ctn-crosscom@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ctn-crosscom] ISO 3-letter country codes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Dear Alexander, All<br>As we see, there are lot of exemptions, various approaches, different arguments how to use country and territory names as gTLD.<br>Current discussion is related to very small part off the problem - how to use 3166 alpha-3 code element. But there are lot of other country and territory names - official name, short name of the country (may be territory also) etc. - Study Group have prepared a document on that. Discussion on each item will take lot of time - as we see it on </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times",serif'>3166 alpha-3 code. In this regards I want to remind my proposal - to underline these all C&T related names in the user browser, possible to do it using different colors (example - SSL certificate indication in the address bar of the browser). In that case end user will have additional information - is it a gTLD or it is a ccTLD. Of course, it may take some time to describe end users the meaning of this difference. In that case each country will be able to deal with related names as they want - Germany can continue his policy, Macao can sell this name of keep it for own usage etc. Technically it is not a problem - how to implement this approach.<br><br>Grigori Saghyan<br>ISOC.AM<br></span>On 01.06.2016 18:59, Alexander Schubert wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hello Timo,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I welcome someone stepping forward, too, announcing plans to base a round 2 gTLD application on a territory name or 3166 aplha-3 code element. And I second your notion that if such application were in conjunction and support with the respective nation (relevant Government authority) and maybe even the ccTLD operator: Who should deny them to utilize that 3166 aplha-3 code element?<br><br>So it all boils down to create a simple yet effective rule that:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Enables an applicant to use a 3166 aplha-3 code element (or territory name like .spain) for a gTLD application – if they are vetted by the Government (and maybe by the ccTLD operator)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Prevents entities from luring Governments into granting some “letter of non-objection” – maybe even based on bribes or sheer lack of expertise within the Government – thus creating harm to the Internet User!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>You made a suggestion for such mechanism: Allow “the country” to use the code as gTLD first – then in the 3<sup>rd</sup> round make them generally available. While manageable and desirable in your specific case I think we run into serious problems here:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Some countries have ZERO oversight over TLD’s in their territory. Germany for example. The German Government has absolutely no stakes, saying or influence over any German gTLD – or ccTLD. And by now there is a BUNCH of German geo-gTLD’s (6) plus of course “.de”. So the German Government wouldn’t voice any interest in applying for .deu: Not their job! Plus: <a href="http://www.irgendwas.deu">www.irgendwas.deu</a> looks more than odd. I am the greatest lover of geo gTLD’s, believe me that, but “.deu” seen from the eyes of the German Internet User is about as alluring as “.hrv” for people in Croatia or “.lva” for people in Latvia. So I do not see DENIC eG (the .de registry) to apply for it either.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>So most nations would probably NOT “secure” their 3166 aplha-3 code element. But many would OBJECT to some foreign (e.g. American) entity snagging up their 3166 aplha-3 code element as gTLD! Examples being:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>MAC (Macao): I don’t see a Wyoming sized nation (650k people) needing .mac – but I am also not sure they want to leave it to Apple! After all it’s a territory controlled by China. I don’t see China being happy if some territory (and being it virtual) being snagged up by an U.S. entity – they are certainly not happy about such incidents in the real world (they are even angry when a U.S. plane flies over their territory).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>LIE (Liechtenstein): 37k people – I think their ccTLD is enough. But I also think that the Prince of Liechtenstein wouldn’t be too amused about domains like <a href="http://www.911.lie">www.911.lie</a> or <a href="http://www.moonlanding.lie">www.moonlanding.lie</a> – because they Lichtensteiners have probably no aim (or capabilities) at landing on the moon and also do not use 911 as emergency code.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>So I assume the jump from “not available under ANY circumstances” to “completely unrestricted in the 3<sup>rd</sup> round” might be a bit ambiguous. <br><br>There must be a mechanism in place that reserves these territory names or 3166 aplha-3 code elements – but makes them available when certain criteria are met. These seemingly involve the relevant Government and maybe the associated ccTLD operator. Has anyone a suggestion how this could be crafted? Do we know whether the GAC has already suggestions – or do they wait for us?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Alexander Schubert</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org">ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Timo Võhmar<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 01, 2016 2:43 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org">ctn-crosscom@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Ctn-crosscom] ISO 3-letter country codes</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hello everybody,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I am Timo from Estonian Internet Foundation the ccTLD of Estonia (.ee), fresh observer in this WG. We have had some thoughts on the 3-letter ISO country codes for some time already playing with an idea how to use it. The CENTR survey some time ago on the topic of releasing the 3-letter codes as gTLDs made us move a bit quicker and form our ideas to a vision.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>It was a suprise when we found out that 3-letter codes are not reserved currently for countries but for future use. When we replied to the CENTR survey we had an impression that countries just do not see the value in 3-letter codes for them selves - to avoid confusion for registrants and unnecessary competition on ccTLD level. So we were quite positive in our answers toward releasing the codes as unused resource. But everything changed for us when we found out that even countries cannot have these under any condition. I know we were not the only ones under this false presumption as this topic has not been much discussed before and I would like to give my contribution to this debate.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>For starters we think that current status quo of just holding back the 3-letter codes like any other such reserved lists (AGB etc) is not ideal. It is unused resource that is of value and after making the new gTLD revolution it seems logical to put these in use as well. But we do not support releasing the country codes as gTLDs as the first step.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>We support doing this in two steps - making the 3-letter codes available to countries and after everyone that has an idea or sees an importance in securing the domain for that particular country the rest of the codes should be made available to everyone in some future gTLD round.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The reasoning for this is simple - generally 3-letter codes are more closely related to the country name than 2-letter codes. And this is a big risk for these ccTLDs for obvious reasons like false association. We do not see the .com example as a precedent for releasing all others as well - this is traditional gTLD, has well known meaning and should be considered as exception in this case.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>After the release of IDN country code TLDs there are now three letter ccTLDs out there as well so there is no clear differentiation between ccTLDs and gTLDs by looking at the number of letters in TLD. Furthermore some ccTLDs are operated as gTLDs (.me, .tv, .io etc). So this argument is no good as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>In short we see the two step release of 3-letter ISO country codes as an alternative to the current status quo, a compromise to break the stalemate and move things forward.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>All questions and comments are very welcome.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Best Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Timo Võhmar</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Arendusjuht / Head of development</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Eesti Interneti SA / Estonian Internet Foundation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><a href="http://www.internet.ee">www.internet.ee</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Ctn-crosscom mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Ctn-crosscom@icann.org">Ctn-crosscom@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ctn-crosscom">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ctn-crosscom</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>