<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi all,<br><br></div>IMHO i think we may be delving into something that does not necessarily apply to this group(i.e we don't have the ultimate decision for this). I don't think the issue of jurisdiction is what we should be spending time on as there is a different working group where that is more appropriate; since its a topic more applicable to ICANN as an organisation. Unless we now want to incorporate IANA and register it somewhere for the first time[1].<br><br></div>Regards<br>1. which will not seem to address anything IMO<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Burr, Becky <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The group of organizations working on the NGO Accountability Charter in<br>
the link Robert just sent around is very instructive:<br>
<br>
ActionAid International,<br>
Amnesty International<br>
Caritas Internationalis<br>
Care International<br>
CBM International<br>
CIVICUS World Alliance for Citizen Participation,<br>
CORDAID<br>
European Environmental Bureau<br>
Greenpeace International<br>
Educo<br>
IRC (International Water & Sanitation Centre)<br>
Oxfam International<br>
Plan International<br>
Sightsavers International<br>
SOS Kinderdorf International<br>
The Forest Trust<br>
World Vision International<br>
World YWCA<br>
<br>
These organizations may all be doing important work but - UNLIKE ICANN -<br>
they are NOT regulating commercial behavior. If I don¹t like what<br>
Greenpeace is doing, I won¹t make a contribution. But I can¹t operate a<br>
top level domain or sell registrations in .com without paying ICANN and<br>
complying with the policies it imposes. It seems fairly obvious to me<br>
that ICANN should be held to a different accountability standard.<br>
<br>
B<br>
<br>
<br>
J. Beckwith Burr<br>
Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer<br>
<span class="im HOEnZb">1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<br>
Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932" value="+12025332932">+ 1.202.533.2932</a> Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367" value="+12023526367">+1.202.352.6367</a> /<br>
<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a> / <a href="http://www.neustar.biz" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">On 11/5/14, 12:43 PM, "Robert Guerra" <<a href="mailto:rguerra@privaterra.org">rguerra@privaterra.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
>Hash: SHA512<br>
><br>
>Kieren,<br>
><br>
>Let me share two quick links that I was able to to find that could be<br>
>of interest in regards providing more details about International<br>
>Non-Governmental Organizations and what seems to be best practices<br>
>that others are working on in regards to accountability.<br>
><br>
>Links below..<br>
><br>
>regards<br>
><br>
>Robert<br>
><br>
>European Convention on the Recognition of the Legal Personality of<br>
>International Non-Governmental Organizations<br>
><br>
><br>
><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_the_Recognition_of_the" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_the_Recognition_of_the</a><br>
>_Legal_Personality_of_International_Non-Governmental_Organizations<br>
><br>
><a href="http://www.uia.org/archive/legal-status-4-11" target="_blank">http://www.uia.org/archive/legal-status-4-11</a><br>
><br>
>International Non-Governmental Organisations Accountability Charter<br>
><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Non-Governmental_Organisations_" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Non-Governmental_Organisations_</a><br>
>Accountability_Charter<br>
><br>
>The International Non-Governmental Organisations Accountability<br>
>Charter (INGO Accountability Charter) is a charter, founded in 2006 by<br>
>a group of independent non-profit organisations, which is intended to<br>
>foster accountability and transparency of non-governmental<br>
>organisations, as well as stakeholder communication and performance.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>On 2014-11-05 12:30 PM, Kieren McCarthy wrote:<br>
>> I'm finding this conversation thread very frustrating.<br>
>><br>
>> If this is a topic being seriously considered - and it looks like<br>
>> it is. And if none of us are in any way qualified to provide a<br>
>> cogent analysis - which it looks like we aren't. Then surely the<br>
>> obvious solution is to find someone, or some group, that can<br>
>> provide some answers to questions.<br>
>><br>
>> Based purely on human nature, I strongly suspect that the argument<br>
>> that California is some how a special place for ICANN/IANA is more<br>
>> to do with it being the status quo than any verifiable reality.<br>
>><br>
>> It is possible that IANA would be better placed in another<br>
>> jurisdiction - although since we have failed to draw up any grounds<br>
>> by which that judgment would be made, the whole conversation seems<br>
>> a little pointless.<br>
>><br>
>> It is equally possible that moving jurisdiction would have no real<br>
>> impact at all.<br>
>><br>
>> One thing that I do see as a fact is that "California law" has been<br>
>> used repeatedly to stymie recommended changes that the staff hasn't<br>
>> agreed with or wanted to introduce. That is a problem.<br>
>><br>
>> If that is the problem we are seeking a solution to, it strikes me<br>
>> that the conversation should focus on how to get independent<br>
>> analysis of decisions that reference "California law" as a reason<br>
>> for a given direction rather than embark on a discussion about<br>
>> jurisdictions overall.<br>
>><br>
>> Either way, let's take our jobs seriously and find some experts<br>
>> rather than mistake familiarity with expertise.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Kieren<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Allan MacGillivray<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a>>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Becky I think that would be of considerable value. ____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Allan____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> *From:*<a href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a>><br>
>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a>>] *On Behalf Of *Burr, Becky<br>
>> *Sent:* November-05-14 10:01 AM *To:* Becky Burr; Dwi Elfrida<br>
>> Martina *Cc:* RFP3<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> *Subject:* Re: [CWG-RFP3] Is there is a more suitable legal<br>
>> jurisdiction for anIANA subsidiary?____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Team -____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Jurisdiction issues are very complex. I believe that it would be<br>
>> extremely helpful for us (as well as for many other work streams)<br>
>> to develop a shared perspective on the basic rules and issues.<br>
>> Although there are many lawyers participating, we would probably<br>
>> get the most benefit from an independent/neutral provider. If this<br>
>> is of interest, I would be happy to work with the co-chairs and<br>
>> other interested folks to put materials and a webinar<br>
>> together.____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> J. Beckwith Burr____<br>
>><br>
>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy<br>
>> Officer____<br>
>><br>
>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006____<br>
>><br>
>> Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932" value="+12025332932">+ 1.202.533.2932</a> <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:<br>
>> +1.202.352.6367 <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> / <a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>> / <a href="http://www.neustar.biz" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a><br>
>> <<a href="http://www.neustar.biz" target="_blank">http://www.neustar.biz</a>>____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> *From: *<Burr>, Becky Burr <<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>>> *Date: *Wednesday, November 5,<br>
>> 2014 at 9:24 AM *To: *Dwi Elfrida Martina <<a href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</a>>> *Cc: *RFP3 <<a href="mailto:cwg-rfp3@icann.org">cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-rfp3@icann.org">cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a>>> *Subject: *Re: [CWG-RFP3] Is there is<br>
>> a more suitable legal jurisdiction for anIANA subsidiary?____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Several independent review panels have held that ICANN is subject<br>
>> to international law. ____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Becky Burr ____<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone____<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Nov 5, 2014, at 03:50, Dwi Elfrida Martina<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:____<br>
>><br>
>> Hi, ____<br>
>><br>
>> my name is Dwi Elfrida, I am from Indonesia. in respond to optioned<br>
>> 2 from Robert, and thanks to bring the jurisdiction issue up, in my<br>
>> opinion to tie up IANA legal status to ICANN's legal status might a<br>
>> faster way to reach IANA's legislation. But, it wouldn't be<br>
>> solution for many parties who questioned IANA's independency from<br>
>> the US government authority, as I know, for some parties the good<br>
>> news (main spirit) of transition of IANA stewardship is to<br>
>> internationalized IANA, means to dismiss the image of single<br>
>> authority of the US government over IANA. Meanwhile, some parties<br>
>> are still debated the ICANN's legislation that cannot be counted as<br>
>> International law, as all cases of TLD (mostly gTLD) will be<br>
>> processed in the US by using the US law. Therefore, the government<br>
>> of France (at ICANN meeting in London) was still calling the issue<br>
>> of making ICANN as International organization legalized by<br>
>> International law. And this idea seems like supported by some<br>
>> governments in Europe, and other part of this world. Indeed,<br>
>> placing IANA's functions and office from the US to other part of<br>
>> this world, is not the solution as well, because it is not the<br>
>> matter or territory, but the matter of legislation system, which<br>
>> law that suitable enough to validate IANA? do we agree to use the<br>
>> US legislation system like has been used by the ICANN, or do we<br>
>> agree to use International law, then how will we make it happen?<br>
>> Our choice on IANA's legislation system will determine the law<br>
>> enforcement of IANA's policies in the future. ____<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,____<br>
>><br>
>> Dwi____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Greg Shatan<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>><br>
>> wrote:____<br>
>><br>
>> Boxbe<br>
>><br>
>><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_overv" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_overv</a><br>
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>>P8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=dwXKcyJyHjOeOv<br>
>>MCvWgkHIQUnNb53ULq_5GsKBtjdqM&e=>Greg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>Shatan (<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>) is not on your Guest List<br>
>><br>
>><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_appro" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_appro</a><br>
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>>o8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=l<br>
>>0Hpa_joycqSp3Z7zfl75E-l1fPnGYe97BVXeJCeLdI&e=><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>| Approve sender<br>
>><br>
>><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_anno-" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_anno-</a><br>
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>>oU67ZKkRXsAZXkWFaXvH6ogLhFbsl8U&e=><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>| Approve domain<br>
>><br>
>><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_anno-" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_anno-</a><br>
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>>001-26dom-26token-3DqXEye5ECFs8sowPv0-252F4O8pOgVuL-252FBmLxktanSEOAIoHm3<br>
>>oce3A-252BGf6umfpPHJkCc-26key-3DhXVOG4roryQLXAw-252BAJXI90w8csVOeh5xYEclQ<br>
>>Yt0Qbk-253D&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjD<br>
>>mrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=2jX-2m<br>
>>WyYFU7bmDZVRcEHQfGtVoCrA-zbiHakjXt0WM&e=><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> All: ____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Here is Robert's second question (which I think also applies to the<br>
>> concept of a fully independent IANA): ____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> *For option #2.<br>
>><br>
>> - Is there is a jurisdiction that ICANN has (or can obtain) legal<br>
>> status might be more suitable to use to create IANA as a<br>
>> subsidiary. Such an option might allow for the link to be a<br>
>> subsidiary of ICANN, but sever the legal link to the US. A<br>
>> negative, of course, would be moving the function and existing<br>
>> staff to a new part of the world.*____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Comments and discussion?____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Greg____<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing<br>
>> list <a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3</a><br>
>><br>
>><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailma" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailma</a><br>
>>n_listinfo_cwg-2Drfp3&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GR<br>
>>laq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8e<br>
>>A&s=dYjlRZKCFivOUjM8w-G3Ngmrm3uTYteQNcbUQCVgfQ0&e=>____<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -- ____<br>
>><br>
>> Dwi Elfrida MS____<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing<br>
>> list <a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a>><br>
>><br>
>><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman</a><br>
>>_listinfo_cwg-2Drfp3&d=AAICAg&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRl<br>
>>aq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA<br>
>>&s=dYjlRZKCFivOUjM8w-G3Ngmrm3uTYteQNcbUQCVgfQ0&e=____<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing<br>
>> list <a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a>><br>
>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________ Cwg-rfp3 mailing<br>
>> list <a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3</a><br>
>><br>
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<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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