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INdeed, I think this is a pretty important caveat. But it seems to
me, without wishing to drag the argument around in circles, it is
important when designing a legal entity, to understand the legal
requirements that apply....and how do you do that if you don't
decide on a jurisdiction? There is certainly a wide choice of
jurisdictions with different norms....and how do we know California
is the best? Would it not be helpful to have a look at some of the
jurisdictional variations rather than just assume all is ok?
Without understand the variations, we can hardly establish the
business requirements. <br>
Stephanie Perrin<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-11-06, 12:12, Burr, Becky
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D08115E7.263C9%25becky.burr@neustar.biz"
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<div>I agree with one caveat – to the extent people think that
creating a separate legal entity actually fixes
jurisdictional concerns, understanding whether or not that
is true is directly relevant to our ultimate recommendation,
no?</div>
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<span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial,
sans-serif;">J. Beckwith Burr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt;">
<b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial,
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<span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial,
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><Lindeberg>,
Elise <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:elise.lindeberg@npt.no">elise.lindeberg@npt.no</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday,
November 5, 2014 at 11:18 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Greg Shatan <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>,
Becky Burr <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cwg-rfp3@icann.org">cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cwg-rfp3@icann.org">cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>SV: [CWG-RFP3]
Is there is a more suitable legal jurisdiction for anIANA
subsidiary?<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" lang="EN-US">All, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" lang="EN-US">Greg - following this discussion
on jurisdiction is really intense. As it stands now I
agree with most of your perspective, and your
conclusion <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" lang="EN-US"></span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">9.
I started with scope, and I'll end with it. If we
recommend a corporate IANA, Inc., it would be
helpful but not entirely necessary to recommend a
jurisdiction. We could be silent on it. If (from
the point of view of stewardship/accountability)
California is a bad choice, it would be helpful to
know it. But this is only one facet (or "variable")
of our work (and a sub-variable at that). We should
manage our time accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" lang="EN-US">If I understand you correctly - I
agree that CWG can have discussions and
recommendations in regards
</span><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">of IANA
as a separate legal entity and establishment of an
Oversight Body/Mechanism as a separate legal entity -
WITHOUT going into details on the complicated issue of
jurisdiction of ICANN/IANA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Elise</span><span style="color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" lang="EN-US">Fra:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" lang="EN-US">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>På vegne av</b> Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 5. november 2014 22:00<br>
<b>Til:</b> Burr, Becky<br>
<b>Kopi:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3@icann.org">cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Emne:</b> Re: [CWG-RFP3] Is there is a more
suitable legal jurisdiction for anIANA subsidiary?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">A few comments on this very active
thread:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. We have to be careful about
scope. I would like to be liberal in what we
discuss, but balance that against getting bogged
down in tangential discussions. I don't think that
changing the jurisdiction of
<b>ICANN</b> is within the scope of our work.
(Though it is an endlessly fascinating topic.) <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. On the other hand, it is
possible that we could recommend the establishment
of
<b>IANA</b> as a separate legal entity. I say that
without judgment on the likelihood or advisability
of that move, but it is clearly "on the table" for
discussion. If IANA is a separate legal entity it
may be created as a wholly-owned subsidiary of ICANN
(at least until some triggering accountability event
causes that to change). It is also possible that
IANA could be a wholly independent entity and not a
subsidiary of ICANN (FYI, it is my understanding
that California non-profits can have subsidiaries.
By contrast, New York non-profits apparently
cannot.)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3. It is also possible that we
could recommend the establishment of an Oversight
Body as a separate legal entity.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4. Given the above, I would
support some exploration of the pro's and con's of
using a California non-profit as an entity, in
contrast to a US non-profit corporation formed in
another U.S. state, an entity formed in another
country, or an unincorporated association. I agree
with Becky and others that getting information from
an independent, neutral and knowledgeable source
would be extremely helpful. (I am a practicing
lawyer, but I am not licensed to practice in
California. I sometimes work with non-profits, but
I am by no means a non-profit law specialist.)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">5. As Becky said, issues of
jurisdiction are complex. They are also
multi-faceted. There are issues of domicile
(physical location), state of incorporation (legal
location), choice of law (what law applies to a
particular contract), and jurisdiction (where an
action may be brought by or against an entity). It
would not be uncommon to find a corporation located
in New York, incorporated in Delaware, entering into
a contract subject to the laws of Texas (or
France). Based on facts and circumstances, it could
be possible to sue that corporation in any number of
place (both those places named and other places).
Immunity from jurisdiction (in the sense of efforts
to not be "sue-able" in a particular place) is a
separate issue, but one that could influence
decisions on each of the above issues. Some quality
information on California law would help. Unless we
find some real problems with California law and
domicile, spending a lot of time on finding another
place for an IANA, Inc. that may or may not exist on
Day 1 would be misguided.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">6. To clarify one point of
California non-profit law that I am fairly sure of
-- a California non-profit (technically, called a
"public benefit corporation") may have members, but
the law does not presuppose that a California
non-profit will have members. This is a choice that
should be made at the time of incorporation (though
it can be changed later), and is based on the nature
of the organization. Some types of organizations
are clearly membership organizations (fraternal
organizations, clubs, etc.), others are clearly not,
others can go either way. That said, this is much
more germane to the CWG-Accountability mandate.
Unless we are going to consider making IANA a
membership corporation... (!)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">7. With regard to Kieren's
email, the interpretation of any law (California law
or otherwise) can be colored by who the client is
and who the audience is. Advice that a lawyer gives
to his/her client about what the law says (or the
range of interpretations of the law) will differ
from the position that the lawyer (or their client)
takes when discussing the law and its interpretation
with third parties. The first should be objective;
the second is almost always going to be subjective
(either expressly or implicitly, it will be an
"advocacy" piece). ICANN's lawyers are going to be
advocates for positions that benefit ICANN. Asking
them to give neutral advice or advice on how to
counter ICANN is fraught with peril (for the lawyers
as well as those taking the advice). Of course,
this is complicated by the question of "Who is
ICANN?" (the corporation, the community, the
corporation plus the SO's and AC's?) But the bottom
line is -- if you hire a lawyer, you should expect
straight-shooting advice on the law from that
lawyer; if you listen to somebody else's lawyer,
there is no reason whatsoever to expect
straight-shooting advice.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">8. "International Organizations"
are very rare (almost non-existent). Virtually all
organizations have a legal "home" in a particular
country (and in U.S., in a particular state of the
U.S.). If you look at the first link Robert
circulated, the Convention on Legal Personality of
INGOs presupposes that an INGO has a legal home in
one (and only one) member state. The IOC is (I
believe) a Swiss entity. The International Committee
of the Red Cross is a Swiss entity, but one created
by the Geneva Convention. There may be a few other
treaty-based INGOs, but by and large INGOs have a
legal "home" jurisdiction. It is their
<b>activities</b> that are international, not their
domicile/state of incorporation. Again, this is
more of an issue for CWG-Accountability (if it is an
issue at all).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">9. I started with scope, and
I'll end with it. If we recommend a corporate IANA,
Inc., it would be helpful but not entirely necessary
to recommend a jurisdiction. We could be silent on
it. If (from the point of view of
stewardship/accountability) California is a bad
choice, it would be helpful to know it. But this is
only one facet (or "variable") of our work (and a
sub-variable at that). We should manage our time
accordingly.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 2:07 PM,
Burr, Becky <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz"
target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The
group of organizations working on the NGO
Accountability Charter in<br>
the link Robert just sent around is very
instructive:<br>
<br>
ActionAid International,<br>
Amnesty International<br>
Caritas Internationalis<br>
Care International<br>
CBM International<br>
CIVICUS World Alliance for Citizen Participation,<br>
CORDAID<br>
European Environmental Bureau<br>
Greenpeace International<br>
Educo<br>
IRC (International Water & Sanitation Centre)<br>
Oxfam International<br>
Plan International<br>
Sightsavers International<br>
SOS Kinderdorf International<br>
The Forest Trust<br>
World Vision International<br>
World YWCA<br>
<br>
These organizations may all be doing important work
but - UNLIKE ICANN -<br>
they are NOT regulating commercial behavior. If I
don¹t like what<br>
Greenpeace is doing, I won¹t make a contribution.
But I can¹t operate a<br>
top level domain or sell registrations in .com
without paying ICANN and<br>
complying with the policies it imposes. It seems
fairly obvious to me<br>
that ICANN should be held to a different
accountability standard.<br>
<br>
B<br>
<br>
<br>
J. Beckwith Burr<br>
Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel and Chief
Privacy Officer<br>
<span class="im">1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW,
Washington, DC 20006</span><br>
<span class="im">Office: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932">+ 1.202.533.2932</a>
Mobile:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367">+1.202.352.6367</a>
/</span><br>
<span class="im"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>
/
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.neustar.biz" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a></span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 11/5/14, 12:43 PM, "Robert
Guerra" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rguerra@privaterra.org">rguerra@privaterra.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
>Hash: SHA512<br>
><br>
>Kieren,<br>
><br>
>Let me share two quick links that I was able
to to find that could be<br>
>of interest in regards providing more
details about International<br>
>Non-Governmental Organizations and what
seems to be best practices<br>
>that others are working on in regards to
accountability.<br>
><br>
>Links below..<br>
><br>
>regards<br>
><br>
>Robert<br>
><br>
>European Convention on the Recognition of
the Legal Personality of<br>
>International Non-Governmental Organizations<br>
><br>
><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_European-5FConvention-5Fon-5Fthe-5FRecognition-5Fof-5Fthe&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=M4a9b8Uq2KA4oDOk0euAXMT1PLI3HMRhgFBQlTBhDc4&s=FiMndWp1vroW1qGxrv6ABZaFAf9BlWFLGnfMG3QN2Hs&e="
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_the_Recognition_of_the</a><br>
>_Legal_Personality_of_International_Non-Governmental_Organizations<br>
><br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.uia.org_archive_legal-2Dstatus-2D4-2D11&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=M4a9b8Uq2KA4oDOk0euAXMT1PLI3HMRhgFBQlTBhDc4&s=drUw-IhVkEgp-KdwSvttFUSwyyGHSir9Bys9so65gfk&e="
target="_blank">http://www.uia.org/archive/legal-status-4-11</a><br>
><br>
>International Non-Governmental Organisations
Accountability Charter<br>
><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_International-5FNon-2DGovernmental-5FOrganisations-5F&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=M4a9b8Uq2KA4oDOk0euAXMT1PLI3HMRhgFBQlTBhDc4&s=N_aExfsThjw9FUJh41QgfEQDUj8sUmpvxXXjkmYrLn0&e="
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Non-Governmental_Organisations_</a><br>
>Accountability_Charter<br>
><br>
>The International Non-Governmental
Organisations Accountability<br>
>Charter (INGO Accountability Charter) is a
charter, founded in 2006 by<br>
>a group of independent non-profit
organisations, which is intended to<br>
>foster accountability and transparency of
non-governmental<br>
>organisations, as well as stakeholder
communication and performance.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>On 2014-11-05 12:30 PM, Kieren McCarthy
wrote:<br>
>> I'm finding this conversation thread
very frustrating.<br>
>><br>
>> If this is a topic being seriously
considered - and it looks like<br>
>> it is. And if none of us are in any way
qualified to provide a<br>
>> cogent analysis - which it looks like
we aren't. Then surely the<br>
>> obvious solution is to find someone, or
some group, that can<br>
>> provide some answers to questions.<br>
>><br>
>> Based purely on human nature, I
strongly suspect that the argument<br>
>> that California is some how a special
place for ICANN/IANA is more<br>
>> to do with it being the status quo than
any verifiable reality.<br>
>><br>
>> It is possible that IANA would be
better placed in another<br>
>> jurisdiction - although since we have
failed to draw up any grounds<br>
>> by which that judgment would be made,
the whole conversation seems<br>
>> a little pointless.<br>
>><br>
>> It is equally possible that moving
jurisdiction would have no real<br>
>> impact at all.<br>
>><br>
>> One thing that I do see as a fact is
that "California law" has been<br>
>> used repeatedly to stymie recommended
changes that the staff hasn't<br>
>> agreed with or wanted to introduce.
That is a problem.<br>
>><br>
>> If that is the problem we are seeking a
solution to, it strikes me<br>
>> that the conversation should focus on
how to get independent<br>
>> analysis of decisions that reference
"California law" as a reason<br>
>> for a given direction rather than
embark on a discussion about<br>
>> jurisdictions overall.<br>
>><br>
>> Either way, let's take our jobs
seriously and find some experts<br>
>> rather than mistake familiarity with
expertise.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Kieren<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Allan
MacGillivray<br>
>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a>>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Becky ­ I think that would be of
considerable value. ____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Allan____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> *From:*<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a>><br>
>> [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a>>]
*On Behalf Of *Burr, Becky<br>
>> *Sent:* November-05-14 10:01 AM *To:*
Becky Burr; Dwi Elfrida<br>
>> Martina *Cc:* RFP3<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> *Subject:* Re: [CWG-RFP3] Is there is a
more suitable legal<br>
>> jurisdiction for anIANA subsidiary?____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Team -____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Jurisdiction issues are very complex.
I believe that it would be<br>
>> extremely helpful for us (as well as
for many other work streams)<br>
>> to develop a shared perspective on the
basic rules and issues.<br>
>> Although there are many lawyers
participating, we would probably<br>
>> get the most benefit from an
independent/neutral provider. If this<br>
>> is of interest, I would be happy to
work with the co-chairs and<br>
>> other interested folks to put materials
and a webinar<br>
>> together.____<br>
<span lang="EN-US">>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> J. Beckwith Burr____<br>
>><br>
>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General
Counsel and Chief Privacy<br>
>> Officer____<br>
>><br>
>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW,
Washington, DC 20006____<br>
>><br>
>> Office: </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932"><span
lang="EN-US">+ 1.202.533.2932</span></a><span
lang="EN-US"> <</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932"><span
lang="EN-US">tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">> Mobile:<br>
>> +1.202.352.6367 <</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367"><span
lang="EN-US">tel:%2B1.202.352.6367</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">> /
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz"><span
lang="EN-US">becky.burr@neustar.biz</span></a><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
>> <mailto:</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz"><span
lang="EN-US">becky.burr@neustar.biz</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">> /
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.neustar.biz" target="_blank"><span
lang="EN-US">www.neustar.biz</span></a><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
>> <</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.neustar.biz" target="_blank"><span
lang="EN-US">http://www.neustar.biz</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">>____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> *From: *<Burr>, Becky Burr <</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz"><span
lang="EN-US">becky.burr@neustar.biz</span></a><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
>> <mailto:</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz"><span
lang="EN-US">becky.burr@neustar.biz</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">>> *Date: *Wednesday,
November 5,<br>
>> 2014 at 9:24 AM *To: *Dwi Elfrida
Martina <</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com"><span
lang="EN-US">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</span></a><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
>> <mailto:</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com"><span
lang="EN-US">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">>> *Cc: *RFP3 <</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3@icann.org"><span
lang="EN-US">cwg-rfp3@icann.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
>> <mailto:</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-rfp3@icann.org"><span
lang="EN-US">cwg-rfp3@icann.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">>> *Subject: *Re:
[CWG-RFP3] Is there is<br>
>> a more suitable legal jurisdiction
for anIANA subsidiary?____<br>
</span>>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Several independent review panels have
held that ICANN is subject<br>
>> to international law. ____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Becky Burr ____<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone____<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Nov 5, 2014, at 03:50, Dwi Elfrida
Martina<br>
>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dwi.elfrida@gmail.com">dwi.elfrida@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:____<br>
>><br>
>> Hi, ____<br>
>><br>
>> my name is Dwi Elfrida, I am from
Indonesia. in respond to optioned<br>
>> 2 from Robert, and thanks to bring the
jurisdiction issue up, in my<br>
>> opinion to tie up IANA legal status to
ICANN's legal status might a<br>
>> faster way to reach IANA's legislation.
But, it wouldn't be<br>
>> solution for many parties who
questioned IANA's independency from<br>
>> the US government authority, as I know,
for some parties the good<br>
>> news (main spirit) of transition of
IANA stewardship is to<br>
>> internationalized IANA, means to
dismiss the image of single<br>
>> authority of the US government over
IANA. Meanwhile, some parties<br>
>> are still debated the ICANN's
legislation that cannot be counted as<br>
>> International law, as all cases of TLD
(mostly gTLD) will be<br>
>> processed in the US by using the US
law. Therefore, the government<br>
>> of France (at ICANN meeting in London)
was still calling the issue<br>
>> of making ICANN as International
organization legalized by<br>
>> International law. And this idea seems
like supported by some<br>
>> governments in Europe, and other part
of this world. Indeed,<br>
>> placing IANA's functions and office
from the US to other part of<br>
>> this world, is not the solution as
well, because it is not the<br>
>> matter or territory, but the matter of
legislation system, which<br>
>> law that suitable enough to validate
IANA? do we agree to use the<br>
>> US legislation system like has been
used by the ICANN, or do we<br>
>> agree to use International law, then
how will we make it happen?<br>
>> Our choice on IANA's legislation system
will determine the law<br>
>> enforcement of IANA's policies in the
future. ____<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,____<br>
>><br>
>> Dwi____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Greg
Shatan<br>
>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>><br>
>> wrote:____<br>
>><br>
>> Boxbe<br>
>><br>
>><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.boxbe.com_overv"
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>>P8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=dwXKcyJyHjOeOv<br>
>>MCvWgkHIQUnNb53ULq_5GsKBtjdqM&e=>Greg<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>Shatan (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>)
is not on your Guest List<br>
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>>-253D&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYa<br>
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>>3Ftc-5Fserial-3D19182912144-26tc-5Frand-3D1184408227-26utm-5Fsource-3Dstf<br>
>>-26utm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fcampaign-3DANNO-5FMWTP-26utm-5Fcontent-3D<br>
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>>oce3A-252BGf6umfpPHJkCc-26key-3DhXVOG4roryQLXAw-252BAJXI90w8csVOeh5xYEclQ<br>
>>Yt0Qbk-253D&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjD<br>
>>mrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=k2GsV6WE92A31X-8yWSy_xDHzzCQkZmNP4-qSd-m8eA&s=2jX-2m<br>
>>WyYFU7bmDZVRcEHQfGtVoCrA-zbiHakjXt0WM&e=><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> All: ____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Here is Robert's second question (which
I think also applies to the<br>
>> concept of a fully independent IANA):
____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> *For option #2.<br>
>><br>
>> - Is there is a jurisdiction that
ICANN has (or can obtain) legal<br>
>> status might be more suitable to use to
create IANA as a<br>
>> subsidiary. Such an option might allow
for the link to be a<br>
>> subsidiary of ICANN, but sever the
legal link to the US. A<br>
>> negative, of course, would be moving
the function and existing<br>
>> staff to a new part of the world.*____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Comments and discussion?____<br>
>><br>
>> __ __<br>
>><br>
>> Greg____<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
_______________________________________________
Cwg-rfp3 mailing<br>
>> list <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a>
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>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -- ____<br>
>><br>
>> Dwi Elfrida MS____<br>
>><br>
>>
_______________________________________________
Cwg-rfp3 mailing<br>
>> list <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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>>&s=dYjlRZKCFivOUjM8w-G3Ngmrm3uTYteQNcbUQCVgfQ0&e=____<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>
_______________________________________________
Cwg-rfp3 mailing<br>
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