[CWG-Stewardship] [client com] Draft: Summary of Legal Structure for CWG Proposal

Matthew Shears mshears at cdt.org
Mon Apr 20 07:29:19 UTC 2015


I agree with Jordan and Greg - these statements should be retained (or 
if necessary modified with the addition "counsel advises").

On 4/20/2015 6:21 AM, Jordan Carter wrote:
> +1 to Greg.
>
> Jordan
>
> On 20 April 2015 at 16:05, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com 
> <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Respectfully, I disagree with Eduardo and Chuck on the following
>     issue:
>
>         2] Items (a) & (c) in section  "The weaknesses of the proposed
>         structure are as follows." (page 3):
>
>         *"(a) Requires forming a new entity and on an ongoing basis
>         attending to a set of  associated corporate formalities,
>         _/although those can be fairly minimal/_;"*
>         *
>         *
>         " (c) May have some negative impact on operational efficiency
>         due to the *functional separation, and the separate legal
>         status will introduce some **additional costs, _/although
>         those should not be significant/_." *
>         *
>         *
>         I suggest to delete the two statements pointed here by an
>         underline/italics. Both statements are seemly subjectives and
>         tend to steer the reader
>          to think that this will be easy to implement and that it will
>         not be costly. There has not been any deep analysis done on
>         these to support either statement.
>
>
>     As a general point, we have asked counsel to provide us not only
>     with their technical expertise, but also with the benefit of their
>     practical experience.  Here they are telling us two things based
>     on their experience:
>
>     -- corporate formalities "can be fairly minimal."
>     -- additional costs introduced by operating PTI with a separate
>     legal status "should not be significant."
>
>     Our counsels' practical experience certainly includes forming
>     corporate entities and attending to corporate formalities
>     (sometimes called "corporate housekeeping") -- I'd daresay among
>     our counsel they have done and continue to do this for hundreds
>     (if not thousands) of corporations.  From my own experience and
>     knowledge, corporate formation and corporate housekeeping are
>     essentially ministerial tasks, and are neither particularly
>     complex or time-consuming (though it requires some familiarity and
>     experience to do these tasks).  It's really a fairly objective and
>     entirely reasonable statement for someone with the requisite
>     knowledge to say that these "can be fairly minimal."  Indeed, I
>     can't think of a scenario where attending to corporate formalities
>     would not be fairly minimal.
>
>     Similarly, I'm fairly sure counsel have dealt many times with the
>     costs associated with having business units in wholly-owned or
>     controlled subsidiaries rather than divisions, and they are aware
>     of what those costs are.  Again this seems like a reasonable
>     statement and one that I'm sure is made objectively.  From my
>     experience, the costs that are a direct result of running a
>     business as a subsidiary, as opposed to as a business unit within
>     the same entity, are not significant.
>
>     In sum, I believe these are both reasonable and very unsurprising
>     statements.  I know that it is not the intent, but I think that
>     giving the impression that the opposite (corporate formalities are
>     not fairly minimal; costs resulting from operating a business as a
>     subsidiary (vs. as a business unit) are significant) could be true
>     creates FUD where there should be none.  Therefore, I think it
>     would be appropriate to accept this advice.
>
>     If we don't want to accept counsel's advice, I don't think the
>     appropriate response is to delete it.  Rather, I think the
>     appropriate action would be to ask counsel to explain the basis of
>     the statements. Alternatively, we could insert "counsel advises"
>     after "although" in each statement.  Let me say that I don't
>     believe we need to do either of these things.  But, if the group
>     is not willing to accept these and move on, these are the courses
>     of action that should be considered.
>
>     Greg
>
>
>     On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Gomes, Chuck
>     <cgomes at verisign.com <mailto:cgomes at verisign.com>> wrote:
>
>         I think that Eduardo is probably right that we really don’t
>         know whether the increased cost for the legal separation will
>         be significant or not without a detailed analysis by the
>         Finance Team.  Now that we are specifically leaning toward the
>         legal separation approach, I suggest that we request an
>         analysis by the Finance Team right away.  It will take them
>         awhile to do it and they will probably have some questions for
>         us but the sooner we get that started the better.  Xavier
>         understands that a lot of the shared IANA costs can still be
>         shared so that will minimize the increase but there will still
>         be increases.  As far as the language in © below, I suggest we
>         say something along these lines instead saying ‘*/_although
>         those should not be significant_/*’: “The significance of the
>         increased costs cannot be determined until a detailed analysis
>         is done by the ICANN Finance Team, but the CWG has requested
>         that analysis and expects to have at least preliminary results
>         before the public comment period ends.”
>
>         Chuck
>
>         *From:*cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
>         <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>
>         [mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org
>         <mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of
>         *Eduardo Diaz
>         *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2015 4:43 PM
>         *To:* cwg-stewardship at icann.org <mailto:cwg-stewardship at icann.org>
>         *Subject:* Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [client com] Draft: Summary
>         of Legal Structure for CWG Proposal
>
>         My comments about the S-A document 20179247_3 on legal structure:
>
>         1] It is not clear who is going to decide about the concepts
>         of designator vs. members (2nd para, page3). Is this an item
>         for the CCWG to resolve?
>
>         2] Items (a) & (c) in section  "The weaknesses of the proposed
>         structure are as follows." (page 3):
>
>         *"(a) Requires forming a new entity and on an ongoing basis
>         attending to a set of  associated corporate formalities,
>         /_although those can be fairly minimal_/;"*
>
>         *" (c) May have some negative impact on operational efficiency
>         due to the *
>
>         *functional separation, and the separate legal status will
>         introduce some *
>
>         *additional costs, /_although those should not be
>         significant_/." *
>
>         **
>
>         I suggest to delete the two statements pointed here by an
>         underline/italics. Both statements are seemly subjectives and
>         tend to steer the reader
>
>          to think that this will be easy to implement and that it will
>         not be costly. There has not been any deep analysis done on
>         these to support either statement.
>
>         -ed
>
>         On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Client Committee List for CWG
>         <cwg-client at icann.org <mailto:cwg-client at icann.org>> wrote:
>
>         Dear All,
>
>         Attached is a summary of the current legal structure under
>         consideration by the CWG.  This also includes the CCWG
>         dependencies.
>
>         Please let us know if you have any comments or would like to
>         discuss.
>
>         Best regards,
>
>         Sharon
>
>         *SHARON**FLANAGAN*
>         Partner
>
>         *Sidley Austin LLP**
>         *+1.415.772.1271 <tel:%2B1.415.772.1271>
>         sflanagan at sidley.com <mailto:sflanagan at sidley.com>
>
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>
> -- 
> Jordan Carter
>
> Chief Executive
> *InternetNZ*
>
> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
> jordan at internetnz.net.nz <mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
> Skype: jordancarter
>
> /A better world through a better Internet /
>
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-- 
Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
+ 44 (0)771 247 2987

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