<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Milton,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Very much in agreement with you on this. I think in one of the threads it was also clear that coming back to the ccNSO, GNSO we are part of the ICANN entity itself and within the entity where ICANN does the naming. Obviously as one would say since ICANN has the required infrastructure to support the number resources where IANA comes in.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">IANA as much as sometimes Avri did mention is like we could call it a dept or the likes. But one thing important in this concept is that when it comes for the NRO - Numbering part the Policy is made from regional areas already and is brought in through the MoU and a converged decision. Somehow as i mentioned before it is slightly easier for them.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Now coming down to the thinking process. From my RIR standpoint it was fine and still fine to have a contract - MoU for IANA to still be under ICANN to continue the management process. IETF is also another loose contract with ICANN for the IANA function. But IETF is also a core of the infrastructure of IANA. If they are not around things may crumble pretty much.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">From ALAC/NCUC the process is stalling as we seem to not formally realise that we are part of the beast - ICANN. The question is from the different SOs how do we ascertain the transparency and accountability process is maintained which means no government control and i think this can be achieved independently from having the GAC as part of the process and no direct government involvement.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Perhaps one way to look at the problem is as much as we have setup this cross working group is a foresight answer to the problem already. Why not the CWG creates a council of membership from the different stakeholders in it and becomes the community that ensures the names part and maintain the accountability.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As far as i remember these were the considerations:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">The considerations:</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">(a) protection of the root zone from political or other improper interference;</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">(b) integrity, stability, continuity, security and robustness of the administration of the root zone;</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class="">(c) widespread [international] trust by Internet users in the administration of this function;</div></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px;" class=""><div style="margin: 0px;" class="">(d) support of a single unified root zone; and</div><div style="margin: 0px;" class="">(e) agreement regarding an accountability mechanism for this function that is broadly accepted as being in the global public interest.”</div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px;" class="">As far as i remember these were the solutions characteristics:</span></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><div style="margin: 0px;" class=""><div style="margin: 0px;" class="">(a) offers a legal structure that is robust against rogue litigation attacks</div><div style="margin: 0px;" class="">(b) is aligned with the Internet technical infrastructure in a way that supports innovative, technology based evolution of the DNS .</div><div style="margin: 0px;" class="">(c) is an inclusive model</div><div style="margin: 0px;" class="">(d) is a demonstrable improvement on current processes in this area</div></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If these are the core principles it should not take much time to accomplish a resolution. Legally stating can ccNSO, GNSO etc., create a legal, i am pretty much doubtful but we can create a council or something that can take the different SOs to be managing and ascertaining the same processes. IETF on the other hand is housed under ISOC. IETF would not be able to house us. We need to still bear in mind we are part of ICANN here. Unless we are looking at decoupling ourselves from ICANN which is not worth. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We need to bear in mind IETF, IAB are closely housed into ISOC which is the entity /organisation that does the management / operational aspect. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My two cents worth.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 23, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" class="">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class="">Fouad:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class="">By the “technical community proposals” I assume you mean the protocols community.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class="">What your argument misses is that IANA _<i class="">is</i>_ a separate organizational entity for both the numbers and protocols communities.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class="">The protocol community has an MoU with ICANN that authorizes ICANN to perform the IANA functions for them. That MoU can be revoked, and IETF can decide to use
someone else. That is the perfect accountability mechanism. Now, tell me how the names community achieves that same wonderful state? There are two ways to do it: pull the IANA out of ICANN, or set up a new contracting authority to replace the NTIA, which could
periodically award the contract to ICANN or to anyone else qualified. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class="">No one wants “the IANA technical and policy functions [might] fall into the hands and whims of governments.” That in fact is a requirement imposed on the transition
by the NTIA. But we do need to make significant organizational changes if we are to meet the requirement of accountability. I think scare talk about take overs can divert our attention from needed reforms and I would resist that kind of talk.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></a></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">I don't think that IANA should be evolved as a separate entity at all and create new opportunities for bureaucracies for governments and industry control. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">The technical community proposals are highly reasonable to not make such a big fuss out of it and help IANA transition under a body that is somewhat messed up but can be improved in the long run however, ICANN would need some changes. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">The technical community has also shown its concern that it doesn't want the IANA technical and policy function to fall into the hands of the whims of governments because it functions to the technical community's needs adequately in its
present environment and role. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Your challenge and for the ICG is to propose that most transparent and accountable way forward that ensures an open and inclusive relationship with the Internet community treating stakeholders in their respective roles but not giving preference
to one group over another another. I don't have to go through the Internet Governance ideals over and over again here.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">First ICANN Board control as the final word for IANA affairs would have to be reviewed and should be taken into a broader community review process. I do not trust the ICANN Board to be able to manage both ICANN and IANA in a transparent
and accountable way, their progress over the years has had its own set of troubles already. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">The proposals are interesting but not the final word. The final word will remain with NTIA and thats my concern from a developing country member citizen perspective. I am going through a great deal of suggestions and proposals and all show
a similar aspect, don't disturb the IANA technical function and the policies for IANA developed by the community have work so far but require more transparency, accountability and functional relationships with the community ensuring open and inclusive participation
in its policy development processes. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">+1 Option 2 is preferred from my end also. However i also added Option 4 as a second preference just incase things get delayed with the accountability process.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers!<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank" class="">ocl@gih.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Hello all,<br class="">
<br class="">
you might wish to see an expanded set of "Options", in a Google Doc which has been shared.<br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B46mlsyZUFF4bZfeWgGCdqIQHCP2BMOy4KZU4RiRiE8/edit?usp=sharing" target="_blank" class="">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B46mlsyZUFF4bZfeWgGCdqIQHCP2BMOy4KZU4RiRiE8/edit?usp=sharing</a><br class="">
<br class="">
So far, I note that the majority of our participants on the At-Large IANA Issues WG appears to prefer Option 2.<br class="">
<br class="">
Kind regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Olivier<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On 15/10/2014 22:55, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">FYI<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br class="">
-------- Forwarded Message -------- <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody class="">
<tr class="">
<td nowrap="" valign="top" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b class="">Subject: <o:p class=""></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">[CWG-Stewardship] Names Community vs the other two communities<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td nowrap="" valign="top" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b class="">Date: <o:p class=""></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Thu, 16 Oct 2014 02:40:47 +0530<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td nowrap="" valign="top" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b class="">From: <o:p class=""></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Guru Acharya <a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">
<gurcharya@gmail.com></a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td nowrap="" valign="top" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b class="">To: <o:p class=""></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">How the names community approach will differ from the approach adopted by the numbers community and protocols community?<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Numbers Community: APNIC has reached consensus on its proposal. According to the proposal, IANA will continue to reside in ICANN. It proposes to replace NTIA oversight with a Service Level Agreement (SLA) and Affirmation of Commitment (AOC)
between NRO and ICANN.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/apnic/report-ianatransition/1" target="_blank" class="">www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/apnic/report-ianatransition/1</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Protocols Community: The IETF draft proposal suggests that no structural changes are required as a result of the transition. The MOU between ICANN and the IETF community will continue to govern the existing relationship. Again, IANA will
continue to reside in ICANN.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ianaplan-icg-response-00" target="_blank" class="">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ianaplan-icg-response-00</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, neither the numbers community, nor the protocol community appear to be in the direction of suggesting a new MS Oversight Entity to replace NTIA and its oversight. Merely contracts between existing entities will be updated to
replace NTIA oversight.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Can the names community adopt a similar approach? Can a contractual agreement (SLA/AOC/MOU) between ICANN and GNSO/CCNSO be expected to replace NTIA oversight?<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Clearly NO! This approach can not be adopted by the names community because the names community resides within ICANN, which is also the IANA operator. Specifically, GNSO and CCNSO are essentially subsets of ICANN, and therefore a contractual
agreement (SLA/AOC/MOU) between ICANN and GNSO/CCNSO can not be expected to replace NTIA oversight.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, it is essential to either<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Option (i): create a new legal entity, which has a contractual oversight relationship with ICANN. This would be similar to <a href="http://www.internetgovernance.org/2014/08/04/students-school-faculty-on-iana-transition-the-meissen-proposal/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.internetgovernance.org/2014/08/04/students-school-faculty-on-iana-transition-the-meissen-proposal/</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Option (ii): expect ICANN to self-regulate<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Option (iii): make a new legal entity comprising of CCNSO and GNSO that is structurally independent of ICANN and require that new entity to enter into a contractual oversight agreement (SLA/AOC/MOU) with ICANN.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">From the above three options, clearly option (ii) is not acceptable because of the lack of trust in the ICANN enhanced accountability process.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">I also feel that option (iii) is not feasible because the CCNSO and GNSO are heavily integrated with ICANN and structural separation of these two communities from ICANN will be in-feasible.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Also, from the Jordan Carter document, the option on page 7 can be discarded, which makes ICANN the oversight body, as IANA will continue to reside in ICANN, as clearly suggested by the proposals of the protocols and numbers community.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, option (i) is clearly the only option available with the names community.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Acharya<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
<pre class="">Iana-issues mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="mailto:Iana-issues@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank" class="">Iana-issues@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iana-issues" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iana-issues</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<pre class="">-- <o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
<pre class="">Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD<o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
<pre class=""><a href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html" target="_blank" class="">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Iana-issues mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:Iana-issues@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank" class="">Iana-issues@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class="">
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iana-issues" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iana-issues</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br clear="all" class="">
<br class="">
-- <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">------------------------------------------------------------------------<span style="color:#888888" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#006600" class="">Seun Ojedeji,<br class="">
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br class="">
web: </span></i><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#888888" class=""><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br class="">
</span></i><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#006600" class="">Mobile: +2348035233535</span></i><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#888888" class=""><br class="">
</span></i><i class=""><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#006600" class="">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank" class="">
</a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank" class="">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#888888" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#888888" class="">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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<a href="mailto:Iana-issues@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">Iana-issues@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class="">
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iana-issues" target="_blank" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/iana-issues</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<br clear="all" class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <br class="">
Regards.<br class="">
--------------------------<br class="">
Fouad Bajwa<br class="">
ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor<br class="">
My Blog: Internet's Governance: <a href="http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" class="">
http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/</a><br class="">
Follow my Tweets: <a href="http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa" target="_blank" class="">http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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