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<div>I’m not sure why this wasn’t clear, but I agree with Peter that the ccNSO is not, on its own, representative of all ccTLDs. Specifically, some ccTLDs that do not participate in the ccNSO do participate in regional organizations, which is why those must
be included. My understanding is that in addition there are some ccTLDs who don’t participate in either forum, so we would need to account for that.</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">J. Beckwith Burr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; "><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(6, 134, 88);">Neustar, Inc. /</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> Deputy
General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(6, 134, 88);">Office</span><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">: + 1.202.533.2932 <span style="color: rgb(6, 134, 88); "> Mobile</span>:
+1.202.352.6367 <span style="color: rgb(6, 134, 88); ">/ <a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" style="color: purple; ">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a> / www.neustar.biz</span></span></p>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>James Gannon <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, October 24, 2014 at 9:32 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google" <<a href="mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com">tracyhackshaw@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names Community vs the other two communities<br>
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On the subject of non-participating ccTLD’s, would bringing the proposed organisational change that would bring control to an independent entity really change anything in the status quo? If these ccTLD’s are not participating within the current structure are
they likely to change that stance with a new IANA entity?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If the future organisational change remains open to their participation and/or input then from that organisations standpoint there would be no change from the current situation?</div>
<div>While improvement of the process is a component of the transition if they do not wish to change from their current stance then I don’t see why this would become an issue?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maybe Im missing a key point here?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>James</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 24 Oct 2014, at 12:07, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <<a href="mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com">tracyhackshaw@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Wow.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Very enlightening indeed Paul. Thank you.</p>
<p dir="ltr">------<br>
Rgds,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Tracy</p>
<div> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 24, 2014 4:33 AM, "Paul M Kane" <<a href="mailto:Paul.Kane@icb.co.uk">Paul.Kane@icb.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The ccNSO is a valuable forum for those ccTLDs that wish to discuss issues and (potentially) be accountable to ICANN and its processes/determinations.<br>
<br>
There are many ccTLDs that have never been to a ccNSO meeting, know little about ICANN and are accountable to their users under the laws of the jurisdiction in which the ccTLD Registry is incorporated and/or the legal jurisdiction of the user contracts with
the ccTLD Registry.<br>
<br>
Unlike gTLDs which specifically obtain their authority to be in the IANA ROOT by virtue of a contract with ICANN, the ccTLD Registry falls into (at least) two categories. There are ccTLDs that have agreements with ICANN and those that do not.<br>
<br>
To be specific, 7 have a MoU with ICANN, 9 have a "Sponsorship Agreement" with ICANN, 27 have an "Accountability Agreement" with ICANN, 42 have an "Exchange of Letters" with ICANN and 170 ccTLDs do not cede authority to ICANN.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Thank you Peter ... extremely helpful. I assume you also have counted those in LACTLD?<br>
<br>
So ... 96 ccTLDs could POTENTIALLY not recognize the ccNSO in any future organizational arrangement involving the ccNSO as is being suggested here.<br>
<br>
That is not insubstantial.<br>
<br>
I can also imagine that when you factor those that are Government affiliated within these 96 ccTLDs, the issues become quite complex as they relate to these discussions.<br>
<br>
I wonder if this is the nexus for GAC involvement in future organizational arrangements ...<br>
<br>
However that will still POTENTIALLY leave some ccTLDs out of the future arrangements being considered here, save for coercing them into joining either the ccNSO or the regional orgs.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts?<br>
<br>
/t<br>
<br>
On Oct 24, 2014 3:20 AM, "Peter Van Roste" <<a href="mailto:peter@centr.org" target="_blank">peter@centr.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:peter@centr.org" target="_blank">peter@centr.org</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Thanks Tracy for raising this.<br>
<br>
Becky is right, this process is open to all ccTLDs. The regional<br>
organisations are reaching out to those that are not in the ccNSO<br>
and to those that are unaffiliated in their respective regions.<br>
<br>
However, it should be taken into account when discussing the<br>
future role the ccNSO could play, that some ccTLDs will not<br>
recognize the ccNSO as a representative of their interests.<br>
<br>
Some stats:<br>
<br>
Out of the 248 ccTLDs:<br>
<br>
152 are members of the ccNSO. Most of those are also a member of<br>
their regional organisation (AfTLD, APTLD, CENTR and APTLD).<br>
<br>
38 ccTLDs are members of their regional organisation but not of<br>
the ccNSO.<br>
<br>
58 ccTLDs are unaffiliated.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Peter Van Roste<br>
<br>
General Manager, CENTR<br>
<br>
*From:* <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.<u></u>org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-<u></u>bounces@icann.org</a>><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-<u></u>bounces@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-<u></u>bounces@icann.org</a>>] *On Behalf Of *Burr, Becky<br>
*Sent:* donderdag 23 oktober 2014 23:37<br>
*To:* Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google; Allan MacGillivray<br>
*Cc:* <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>><br>
*Subject:* Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names<br>
Community vs the other two communities<br>
<br>
Some of those who do not participate in the ccNSO do participate<br>
in regional organizations such as LACTLD and APTLD. We have also<br>
set up a global list to communicate with ccTLDs that don’t<br>
participate in either. Note that the ccNSO rules permit cc’s to<br>
participate fully without actually joining the ccNSO itself.<br>
<br>
J. Beckwith Burr<br>
<br>
*Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer<br>
<br>
1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<br>
<br>
Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932" value="&#43;12025332932" target="_blank">
+ 1.202.533.2932</a> <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:<br>
<a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367" value="&#43;12023526367" target="_blank">+1.202.352.6367</a> <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> /
<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>> /
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">http://www.neustar.biz</a>><br>
<br>
*From: *"Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google" <<a href="mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com" target="_blank">tracyhackshaw@gmail.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com" target="_blank">tracyhackshaw@gmail.<u></u>com</a>>><br>
*Date: *Thursday, October 23, 2014 at 5:31 PM<br>
*To: *Allan MacGillivray <<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@<u></u>cira.ca</a>>><br>
*Cc: *Becky Burr <<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>>>, Milton L Mueller<br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=FpF7I88o7PkrhbFKaaSJMpFjOxiyNasPrd5GblmAKHc&e=" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>
<mailto:<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=FpF7I88o7PkrhbFKaaSJMpFjOxiyNasPrd5GblmAKHc&e=" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>>>,
Guru Acharya<br>
<<a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurcharya@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurcharya@gmail.com</a>>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>><br>
*Subject: *Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names<br>
Community vs the other two communities<br>
<br>
What about the ccTLDs who are NOT part of the ccNSO ... has this<br>
been discussed/dealt with already?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Allan MacGillivray<br>
<<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@<u></u>cira.ca</a>>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
So let’s see if I have got this correct. The idea is that the<br>
registries would set up a corporation that could contract with<br>
IANA, either as a stand-alone entity or as a department of ICANN,<br>
for the performance of the IANA functions – let’s call it<br>
‘RegistryCo’ for short. Would there not be liability concerns on<br>
the part of many registries to being directors of RegistryCo? Even if they could be convinced, would those ccTLDs that are<br>
governments be comfortable with such an approach? And it would<br>
need some money to get going. Incorporating does take little<br>
money, but negotiating the contract would be quite another issue.<br>
<br>
*From:* Burr, Becky [mailto:<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>>]<br>
*Sent:* October-23-14 4:20 PM<br>
*To:* Milton L Mueller; Guru Acharya<br>
*Cc:* Allan MacGillivray; Fouad Bajwa; <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">
cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
*Subject:* Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names<br>
Community vs the other two communities<br>
<br>
Correct. In any case, it takes very little time or money to<br>
create a light weight legal entity.<br>
<br>
J Beckwith Burr<br>
<br>
*Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer<br>
<br>
1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<br>
<br>
Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932" value="&#43;12025332932" target="_blank">
+ 1.202.533.2932</a> <tel:%2B%201.202.5332932> Mobile:<br>
<a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367" value="&#43;12023526367" target="_blank">+1.202.352.6367</a> <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> / becky.burr@neustarbiz<br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>> /
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">http://www.neustar.biz</a>><br>
<br>
*From: *Milton L Mueller <<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=FpF7I88o7PkrhbFKaaSJMpFjOxiyNasPrd5GblmAKHc&e=" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a><br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=GgzA5SwJogI0ald8wwDSR-ml1BmbWp0LkVsHeAGs0EU&s=ZpmqRGN-6diwUv7gbTulgFXccZAa2eMl5e0pxgIPoEk&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.<u></u>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-<u></u>3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.<u></u>edu&d=AAMFaQ&c=<u></u>MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=<u></u>62cJFOifzm6X_<u></u>GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k<u></u>&m=GgzA5SwJogI0ald8wwDSR-<u></u>ml1BmbWp0LkVsHeAGs0EU&s=<u></u>ZpmqRGN-<u></u>6diwUv7gbTulgFXccZAa2eMl5e0pxg<u></u>IPoEk&e=</a>>><br>
*Date: *Thursday, October 23, 2014 at 3:41 PM<br>
*To: *Guru Acharya <<a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurcharya@gmail.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurcharya@gmail.com</a>>>, Becky Burr <<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>>><br>
*Cc: *Allan MacGillivray <<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@<u></u>cira.ca</a>>>, Fouad Bajwa<br>
<<a href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com" target="_blank">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com" target="_blank">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a>>><u></u>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>><br>
*Subject: *RE: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names<br>
Community vs the other two communities<br>
<br>
No. Guru this is incorrect. Both the CCNSO and the GNSO are made<br>
up of mostly incorporated legal entities. Certainly the TLD<br>
registries in both entities are legally incorporated.<br>
<br>
*From:* Guru Acharya [mailto:<a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurcharya@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<br>
Even though NFL is an unincorporated association, the 32<br>
independent teams that comprise the unincorporated association are<br>
legal entities. These 32 legal entities then collectively enter to<br>
into pooled-rights contract with any third party.<br>
<br>
In comparison, CCNSO and GNSO are not legal entities; and they can<br>
not form an unincorporated association.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Burr, Becky<br>
<<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">Becky.Burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
The law varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but in the<br>
US, the question is whether there is an enforceable contract<br>
and not whether one of the contracting parties is a formal<br>
legal entity. I can assure you, the NFL enforces contracts<br>
all the time.<br>
<br>
J. Beckwith Burr<br>
<br>
*Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer<br>
<br>
1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<br>
<br>
Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932" value="&#43;12025332932" target="_blank">
+ 1.202.533.2932</a> <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:<br>
<a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367" value="&#43;12023526367" target="_blank">
+1.202.352.6367</a> <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> /<br>
<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>> /<br>
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a> <<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">http://www.neustar.biz</a>><br>
<br>
*From: *Allan MacGillivray <<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@cira.ca</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:allan.macgillivray@cira.ca" target="_blank">allan.macgillivray@<u></u>cira.ca</a>>><br>
*Date: *Thursday, October 23, 2014 at 12:04 PM<br>
*To: *Becky Burr <<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>>>, Milton L Mueller<br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=FpF7I88o7PkrhbFKaaSJMpFjOxiyNasPrd5GblmAKHc&e=" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a><br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=INYMVpabyaFlLICPn_6grbXytRGxGNbwdxstS1N6kfU&s=xm679ts9ebwDNuRzz6N0a2u03BsoJV4iMSTlfNWBXKU&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.<u></u>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-<u></u>3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.<u></u>edu&d=AAMGaQ&c=<u></u>MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=<u></u>62cJFOifzm6X_<u></u>GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k<u></u>&m=INYMVpabyaFlLICPn_<u></u>6grbXytRGxGNbwdxstS1N6kfU&s=<u></u>xm679ts9ebwDNuRzz6N0a2u03BsoJV<u></u>4iMSTlfNWBXKU&e=</a>>>,<br>
Fouad Bajwa <<a href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com" target="_blank">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com" target="_blank">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a>>><br>
*Cc: *"<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>><br>
*Subject: *RE: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names<br>
Community vs the other two communities<br>
<br>
Becky – you raise a very important point as to whether<br>
unincorporated entities can enter into enforceable contracts. If they can, it may simplify things considerably e.g. have<br>
ccNSO, GNSO, ALAC? 'take over’ the contact with ICANN. I had<br>
been labouring under the assumption that the ccNSO, GNSO would<br>
have to incorporate to do this. How can we get clarity on this?<br>
<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
*From:*<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-<u></u>bounces@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-<u></u>bounces@icann.org</a>><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-<u></u>bounces@icann.org</a>] *On Behalf Of<br>
*Burr, Becky<br>
*Sent:* October-23-14 11:43 AM<br>
*To:* Milton L Mueller; Fouad Bajwa<br>
*Cc:* <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>><br>
*Subject:* Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names<br>
Community vs the other two communities<br>
<br>
Rather than starting with legal constructs, let’s begin by<br>
talking about what we need to accomplish requisite<br>
accountability. To me, we need some independent committee,<br>
council, unincorporated association, or representative group<br>
to have a contract with ICANN/IANA for performing IANA<br>
functions consistent with SLA’s to be negotiated and<br>
documented. We need this entity, presumably representative of<br>
IANA service consumers, to have recourse if the SLA’s are not<br>
met.<br>
<br>
If this is correct, then we can look at what kind of legal<br>
entity we need for the “SLA Council.” Seems to me that the<br>
core of this group would be registry operators, perhaps with<br>
representation from other stakeholders like registstrars,<br>
registrants, etc. Could be stand alone or perhaps housed in<br>
ISOC or the IETF? I am pretty sure that unincorporated<br>
associations can enter into enforceable contracts, etc. (For<br>
example, the National Football League in the US is actually an<br>
unincorporated association).<br>
<br>
Second, we need a mechanism that ensure recourse and redress<br>
for a registry that is wrongfully revoked, delegated, etc. That mechanism can be provided to all through the ICANN<br>
bylaws, e.g., as an independent review.<br>
<br>
J. Beckwith Burr<br>
<br>
*Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer<br>
<br>
1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<br>
<br>
Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932" value="&#43;12025332932" target="_blank">
+ 1.202.533.2932</a> <tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932> Mobile:<br>
<a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367" value="&#43;12023526367" target="_blank">
+1.202.352.6367</a> <tel:%2B1.202.352.6367> /<br>
<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" target="_blank">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><u></u>> /<br>
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">www.neustar.biz</a> <<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" target="_blank">http://www.neustar.biz</a>><br>
<br>
*From: *Milton L Mueller <<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=FpF7I88o7PkrhbFKaaSJMpFjOxiyNasPrd5GblmAKHc&e=" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a><br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.edu&d=AAMFAw&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=9jEM_hACGXiATouHvV-V_jUNH5sc3y-bQFzqRD4_qRU&s=WD5mnQGH8gOzXMllT3aJRt_wLg7aZMZR0oiM_ERgS0g&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.<u></u>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-<u></u>3A__mailto-3Amueller-40syr.<u></u>edu&d=AAMFAw&c=<u></u>MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=<u></u>62cJFOifzm6X_<u></u>GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k<u></u>&m=9jEM_hACGXiATouHvV-V_<u></u>jUNH5sc3y-bQFzqRD4_qRU&s=<u></u>WD5mnQGH8gOzXMllT3aJRt_<u></u>wLg7aZMZR0oiM_ERgS0g&e=</a>>><br>
*Date: *Thursday, October 23, 2014 at 11:17 AM<br>
*To: *Fouad Bajwa <<a href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com" target="_blank">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com" target="_blank">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a>>><br>
*Cc: *"<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>>><br>
*Subject: *Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [IANA-issues] Fwd: Names<br>
Community vs the other two communities<br>
<br>
Fouad:<br>
<br>
By the “technical community proposals” I assume you mean the<br>
protocols community.<br>
<br>
What your argument misses is that IANA _/is/_ a separate<br>
organizational entity for both the numbers and protocols<br>
communities.<br>
<br>
The protocol community has an MoU with ICANN that authorizes<br>
ICANN to perform the IANA functions for them. That MoU can be<br>
revoked, and IETF can decide to use someone else. That is the<br>
perfect accountability mechanism. Now, tell me how the names<br>
community achieves that same wonderful state? There are two<br>
ways to do it: pull the IANA out of ICANN, or set up a new<br>
contracting authority to replace the NTIA, which could<br>
periodically award the contract to ICANN or to anyone else<br>
qualified.<br>
<br>
No one wants “the IANA technical and policy functions [might]<br>
fall into the hands and whims of governments.” That in fact is<br>
a requirement imposed on the transition by the NTIA. But we do<br>
need to make significant organizational changes if we are to<br>
meet the requirement of accountability. I think scare talk<br>
about take overs can divert our attention from needed reforms<br>
and I would resist that kind of talk.<br>
<br>
I don't think that IANA should be evolved as a separate entity<br>
at all and create new opportunities for bureaucracies for<br>
governments and industry control.<br>
<br>
The technical community proposals are highly reasonable to not<br>
make such a big fuss out of it and help IANA transition under<br>
a body that is somewhat messed up but can be improved in the<br>
long run however, ICANN would need some changes.<br>
<br>
The technical community has also shown its concern that it<br>
doesn't want the IANA technical and policy function to fall<br>
into the hands of the whims of governments because it<br>
functions to the technical community's needs adequately in its<br>
present environment and role.<br>
<br>
Your challenge and for the ICG is to propose that most<br>
transparent and accountable way forward that ensures an open<br>
and inclusive relationship with the Internet community<br>
treating stakeholders in their respective roles but not giving<br>
preference to one group over another another. I don't have to<br>
go through the Internet Governance ideals over and over again<br>
here.<br>
<br>
First ICANN Board control as the final word for IANA affairs<br>
would have to be reviewed and should be taken into a broader<br>
community review process. I do not trust the ICANN Board to be<br>
able to manage both ICANN and IANA in a transparent and<br>
accountable way, their progress over the years has had its own<br>
set of troubles already.<br>
<br>
The proposals are interesting but not the final word. The<br>
final word will remain with NTIA and thats my concern from a<br>
developing country member citizen perspective. I am going<br>
through a great deal of suggestions and proposals and all show<br>
a similar aspect, don't disturb the IANA technical function<br>
and the policies for IANA developed by the community have work<br>
so far but require more transparency, accountability and<br>
functional relationships with the community ensuring open and<br>
inclusive participation in its policy development processes.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Seun Ojedeji<br>
<<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><u></u>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
+1 Option 2 is preferred from my end also. However i also<br>
added Option 4 as a second preference just incase things<br>
get delayed with the accountability process.<br>
<br>
Cheers!<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond<br>
<<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
you might wish to see an expanded set of "Options", in<br>
a Google Doc which has been shared.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1B46mlsyZUFF4bZfeWgGCdqIQHCP2BMOy4KZU4RiRiE8_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=YlmceCglNvlNSJ3TGzs-bXBNjU3PAfKIjCW39DYrspU&e=" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/<u></u>document/d/<u></u>1B46mlsyZUFF4bZfeWgGCdqIQHCP2B<u></u>MOy4KZU4RiRiE8/edit?usp=<u></u>sharing</a><br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1B46mlsyZUFF4bZfeWgGCdqIQHCP2BMOy4KZU4RiRiE8_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=iSr26xOvv_x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy07cw&s=fUDcpKHcSBfPHc8c3PFUK3EGMl9QAYJOV5JFJEPECSo&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.<u></u>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-<u></u>3A__docs.google.com_document_<u></u>d_<u></u>1B46mlsyZUFF4bZfeWgGCdqIQHCP2B<u></u>MOy4KZU4RiRiE8_edit-3Fusp-<u></u>3Dsharing&d=AAMGaQ&c=<u></u>MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=<u></u>62cJFOifzm6X_<u></u>GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k<u></u>&m=iSr26xOvv_<u></u>x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy0<u></u>7cw&s=<u></u>fUDcpKHcSBfPHc8c3PFUK3EGMl9QAY<u></u>JOV5JFJEPECSo&e=</a>><br>
<br>
So far, I note that the majority of our participants<br>
on the At-Large IANA Issues WG appears to prefer Option 2.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 15/10/2014 22:55, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:<br>
<br>
FYI<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------<br>
<br>
*Subject: *<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
[CWG-Stewardship] Names Community vs the other two<br>
communities<br>
<br>
*Date: *<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thu, 16 Oct 2014 02:40:47 +0530<br>
<br>
*From: *<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Guru Acharya <<a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurcharya@gmail.com</a>><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurcharya@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
*To: *<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.<u></u>org</a>><br>
<br>
How the names community approach will differ from<br>
the approach adopted by the numbers community and<br>
protocols community?<br>
<br>
Numbers Community: APNIC has reached consensus on<br>
its proposal. According to the proposal, IANA will<br>
continue to reside in ICANN. It proposes to<br>
replace NTIA oversight with a Service Level<br>
Agreement (SLA) and Affirmation of Commitment<br>
(AOC) between NRO and ICANN.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.slideshare.net_fullscreen_apnic_report-2Dianatransition_1&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=dzsxbIHPJOQgHDYY87DNHzP_Ko4BKIPLAHTbOAM3kzY&e=" target="_blank">
www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/<u></u>apnic/report-ianatransition/1</a><br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.slideshare.net_fullscreen_apnic_report-2Dianatransition_1&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=iSr26xOvv_x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy07cw&s=ipQr6NSV4s2YyeTKtleRzaehK6NnJP70z0QOuy57W7o&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.<u></u>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-<u></u>3A__www.slideshare.net_<u></u>fullscreen_apnic_report-<u></u>2Dianatransition_1&d=AAMGaQ&c=<u></u>MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=<u></u>62cJFOifzm6X_<u></u>GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k<u></u>&m=iSr26xOvv_<u></u>x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy0<u></u>7cw&s=<u></u>ipQr6NSV4s2YyeTKtleRzaehK6NnJP<u></u>70z0QOuy57W7o&e=</a>><br>
<br>
Protocols Community: The IETF draft proposal<br>
suggests that no structural changes are required<br>
as a result of the transition. The MOU between<br>
ICANN and the IETF community will continue to<br>
govern the existing relationship. Again, IANA will<br>
continue to reside in ICANN.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dianaplan-2Dicg-2Dresponse-2D00&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=UaWyH-7M9L-J-5cJF33-fKg5o-ihJF4zwGhFfNlOsNY&e=" target="_blank">
http://tools.ietf.org/html/<u></u>draft-ietf-ianaplan-icg-<u></u>response-00</a><br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dianaplan-2Dicg-2Dresponse-2D00&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=iSr26xOvv_x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy07cw&s=hsoL84pOSYzJR4QRMfhJYR6ybddmed3Zi1M-kuVH5uQ&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.<u></u>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-<u></u>3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-<u></u>2Dietf-2Dianaplan-2Dicg-<u></u>2Dresponse-2D00&d=AAMGaQ&c=<u></u>MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=<u></u>62cJFOifzm6X_<u></u>GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k<u></u>&m=iSr26xOvv_<u></u>x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy0<u></u>7cw&s=<u></u>hsoL84pOSYzJR4QRMfhJYR6ybddmed<u></u>3Zi1M-kuVH5uQ&e=</a>><br>
<br>
Therefore, neither the numbers community, nor the<br>
protocol community appear to be in the direction<br>
of suggesting a new MS Oversight Entity to replace<br>
NTIA and its oversight. Merely contracts between<br>
existing entities will be updated to replace NTIA<br>
oversight.<br>
<br>
Can the names community adopt a similar approach?<br>
Can a contractual agreement (SLA/AOC/MOU) between<br>
ICANN and GNSO/CCNSO be expected to replace NTIA<br>
oversight?<br>
<br>
Clearly NO! This approach can not be adopted by<br>
the names community because the names community<br>
resides within ICANN, which is also the IANA<br>
operator. Specifically, GNSO and CCNSO are<br>
essentially subsets of ICANN, and therefore a<br>
contractual agreement (SLA/AOC/MOU) between ICANN<br>
and GNSO/CCNSO can not be expected to replace NTIA<br>
oversight.<br>
<br>
Therefore, it is essential to either<br>
<br>
Option (i): create a new legal entity, which has a<br>
contractual oversight relationship with ICANN.<br>
This would be similar toÂ<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.internetgovernance.org_2014_08_04_students-2Dschool-2Dfaculty-2Don-2Diana-2Dtransition-2Dthe-2Dmeissen-2Dproposal_&d=AAMF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=ywafUHoi6i6pOm8gv0t97tvPuY5gpSnalUwXbUbMp1w&s=NWqJwYhiR1usVqRAoUlkEGwb4SPhJgf8Yy4mRd5Lzj8&e=" target="_blank">
http://www.internetgovernance.<u></u>org/2014/08/04/students-<u></u>school-faculty-on-iana-<u></u>transition-the-meissen-<u></u>proposal/</a><br>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.internetgovernance.org_2014_08_04_students-2Dschool-2Dfaculty-2Don-2Diana-2Dtransition-2Dthe-2Dmeissen-2Dproposal_&d=AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=iSr26xOvv_x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy07cw&s=HC19PauLIvR68L1aaQZMUV1ysZRdzy1Rku_FhtwR4P0&e=" target="_blank">https://urldefense.<u></u>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-<u></u>3A__www.internetgovernance.<u></u>org_2014_08_04_students-<u></u>2Dschool-2Dfaculty-2Don-<u></u>2Diana-2Dtransition-2Dthe-<u></u>2Dmeissen-2Dproposal_&d=<u></u>AAMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_<u></u>lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_<u></u>GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k<u></u>&m=iSr26xOvv_<u></u>x1A2nuUqvtaRwVOgTvzV0efqUDkGy0<u></u>7cw&s=<u></u>HC19PauLIvR68L1aaQZMUV1ysZRdzy<u></u>1Rku_FhtwR4P0&e=</a>><br>
<br>
Option (ii): expect ICANN to self-regulate<br>
<br>
Option (iii): make a new legal entity comprising<br>
of CCNSO and GNSO that is structurally independent<br>
of ICANN and require that new entity to enter into<br>
a contractual oversight agreement (SLA/AOC/MOU)<br>
with ICANN.<br>
<br>
From the above three options, clearly option (ii)<br>
is not acceptable because of the lack of trust in<br>
the ICANN enhanced accountability process.<br>
<br>
I also feel that option (iii) is not feasible<br>
because the CCNSO and GNSO are heavily integrated<br>
with ICANN and structural separation of these two<br>
communities from ICANN will be in-feasible.<br>
<br>
Also, from the Jordan Carter document, the option<br>
on page 7 can be discarded, which makes ICANN the<br>
oversight body, as IANA will continue to reside in<br>
ICANN, as clearly suggested by the proposals of<br>
the protocols and numbers community.<br>
<br>
Therefore, option (i) is clearly the only option<br>
available with the names community.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Acharya<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
------------------------------<u></u>------------------------------<u></u>------------<br>
<br>
/Seun Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br>
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--------------------------<br>
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ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor<br>
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