<div dir="ltr">Holly and all:<div><br></div><div>I have the same questions and concerns. Are we taking the route of a Contrac Co, because is what NTIA is expecting to see as part of the proposal or is it because concerns of ICANN accountability. My impression is the second.</div><div><br></div><div>-ed</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Holly Raiche <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net" target="_blank">h.raiche@internode.on.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Seun<div><br></div><div>You have summed up the issue wonderfully.</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, we appear to be going down the second route. But there are still questions around that route. Alan’s (and Olivier’s and many other's) inputs have asked hard questions about the route - as have I. In particular, I asked about the proposed Contract Co. If it is to be created, what is to be its nature, size, powers, funding. From Greg, it emerged that what was envisaged was a shelf company and the multi stakeholder processes under its umbrella would be the mechanisms of accountability. Since then, it appears that the Contract Co will be more than a shelf company, so the many questions about its nature, powers, funding remain. And without answers, I am not sure why the first alternative - fixing the accountability mechanisms - has been rejected. It appears we are hoping the creation of a legal entity (however small) will solve problems. I remain to be convinced.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Holly</div></font></span><div><div class="h5"><div> <br><div><div>On 3 Dec 2014, at 7:21 am, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">Hi Chuck,<br><br>Thanks a lot for sharing this url....its really useful and i am going to hope that the accountability team are looking at scenarios like that to fix ICANN. Inview of this, there are generally 2 routes:<br><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">- Fix the accountability mechanisms within ICANN and let the NTIA role naturally go away<br><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">- While the accountability mechanism is yet to be fixed, provide a means by which IANA can still be moved out of ICANN <br><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">I presume we are currently going the second route at the moment. So a question that i may ask is, will it not be better to work towards the first route through the second route? This will mean maintaining the ability to move IANA from current operator with an external body (can be an existing body like ISOC, IETF etc) or the lightweight (Contracting Co earlier proposed) and then provide certain principles/mechanisms that this CWG expect to have been addressed within specific time-frame.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">That will give ICANN (and its community) enough time to work on improving its accountability measures within the timeline indicated by this CWG.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Regards<br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Gomes, Chuck <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Seun,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Please see the letter I sent to Fadi in 2013:
<a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/correspondence/gomes-to-chehade-2013-08-30-en" target="_blank">
https://www.icann.org/resources/correspondence/gomes-to-chehade-2013-08-30-en</a> .<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Chuck<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Seun Ojedeji<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 02, 2014 3:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Avri Doria<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><span><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need a Contracting Co.?<u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On 02-Dec-14 07:16, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I also don't understand the view that ICANN community and corporate are separate.
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
The ICANN Board and Staff are independent of the Community and can overrule the community either by a vote of the Board, or by calling an action 'implementation' that does not require community agreement.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">Okay, may i ask if this is happening at the moment and what the NTIA role has been in making sure it does not happen? because what we are trying to transition is the NTIA role and not ICANN management itself....if there is something that
needs to be fixed in the ICANN structure then it could be put in the requirement for transition (most of which should be looked into by the accountability cwg).
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal">especially since the Board, given its understanding of the its fiduciary responsibility sees itself as NOT representing the community. Adn the staff is governed by a CEO that is not subject, in any way, to community appproval in hiring
or contract renewal. The Community has NO influence over ICANN Staff.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal">Well in the RIR world the board (by by-law) acts in the interest of the organisation. They may also choose not to listen to the community but they usually wisely choose otherwise.... ;).<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">What does that mean? and how is ICANN community different from a typical RIR community.
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">In the RIRs there is no body with a vote that can overrule the will of the community in policy making.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal">The RIR board by the by-law could decide not to approve a policy proposal, its just that they have not had any reason to exercise such powers. So if you are saying there has been consistence instances where a policy that achieved consensus
in the ICANN community was overruled by the board, then there is definitely something wrong and will be good to have an example of such scenario to understand why they took such action and determine how to avoid such in future. This is how we build the organisation
from inside especially if we understand that ICANN is the home for gTLD<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Please when you think of who pays, think of it from the customer perspective, think of participation, think of the resources that's already been expended in this current ICG process.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
How does the contractor paying hurt the consumers?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I think it will be safer to answer this with another question, where will the contractor get the money to pay from?
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
I persist in seeing the only real possibility of capture in a massively multistakeholder body is that the community process can be captured by ICANN corporate decisions made that disregard the community's consensus, and that is what we need to protect against.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Looks like you are now referring the MRT to be a MASSIVE multi-stakeholder body, please can we fashion out the composition and charter of this organisation so we appreciate what we are looking at. It sure seem
there is going to be a lot of mechanism required to ensure that the multistakeholder body is indeed inclusive.
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
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avri</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<br>
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal">------------------------------------------------------------------------<span style="color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">Seun Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br>
web: </span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B2348035233535" value="+2348035233535" target="_blank">+2348035233535</a></span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank">
</a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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