<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Maarten Simon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:maarten.simon@sidn.nl" target="_blank">maarten.simon@sidn.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">I am of the same opinion and wonder, not noing much about Californian corporate law, if we could find a solution in adding specific elements to
ICANN’s bylaws specifically aimed on the IANA function. </span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Makes sense for an option <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="NL"><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span></p> <span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">As I said, I have no clue if such a solution would be possible under Californian law. Under my legal system I think it would.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually we have no clue yet on the legal aspect of current proposal either. It would be good to present all these options as we seek legal perspective around all of them.<br><br></div><div>Thanks<br><br></div><div>Cheers!<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="NL"><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Maarten<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eduardo Diaz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> woensdag 3 december 2014 1:19<br>
<b>To:</b> Holly Raiche</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need a Contracting Co.?<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Holly and all:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have the same questions and concerns. Are we taking the route of a Contrac Co, because is what NTIA is expecting to see as part of the proposal or is it because concerns of ICANN accountability. My impression is the second.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-ed<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Holly Raiche <<a href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net" target="_blank">h.raiche@internode.on.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Seun<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">You have summed up the issue wonderfully.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, we appear to be going down the second route. But there are still questions around that route. Alan’s (and Olivier’s and many other's) inputs have asked hard questions about the route - as have I. In particular, I asked about the
proposed Contract Co. If it is to be created, what is to be its nature, size, powers, funding. From Greg, it emerged that what was envisaged was a shelf company and the multi stakeholder processes under its umbrella would be the mechanisms of accountability.
Since then, it appears that the Contract Co will be more than a shelf company, so the many questions about its nature, powers, funding remain. And without answers, I am not sure why the first alternative - fixing the accountability mechanisms - has been rejected.
It appears we are hoping the creation of a legal entity (however small) will solve problems. I remain to be convinced.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">Holly<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 3 Dec 2014, at 7:21 am, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Chuck,<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot for sharing this url....its really useful and i am going to hope that the accountability team are looking at scenarios like that to fix ICANN. Inview of this, there are generally 2 routes:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Fix the accountability mechanisms within ICANN and let the NTIA role naturally go away<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- While the accountability mechanism is yet to be fixed, provide a means by which IANA can still be moved out of ICANN
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I presume we are currently going the second route at the moment. So a question that i may ask is, will it not be better to work towards the first route through the second route? This will mean maintaining the
ability to move IANA from current operator with an external body (can be an existing body like ISOC, IETF etc) or the lightweight (Contracting Co earlier proposed) and then provide certain principles/mechanisms that this CWG expect to have been addressed within
specific time-frame.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">That will give ICANN (and its community) enough time to work on improving its accountability measures within the timeline indicated by this CWG.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Gomes, Chuck <<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Seun,</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Please see the letter I sent to Fadi in 2013:
<a href="https://www.icann.org/resources/correspondence/gomes-to-chehade-2013-08-30-en" target="_blank">
https://www.icann.org/resources/correspondence/gomes-to-chehade-2013-08-30-en</a> .</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US">Chuck</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Seun Ojedeji<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 02, 2014 3:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Avri Doria<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need a Contracting Co.?</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">On 02-Dec-14 07:16, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I also don't understand the view that ICANN community and corporate are separate.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
The ICANN Board and Staff are independent of the Community and can overrule the community either by a vote of the Board, or by calling an action 'implementation' that does not require community agreement.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Okay, may i ask if this is happening at the moment and what the NTIA role has been in making sure it does not happen? because what we are trying to transition
is the NTIA role and not ICANN management itself....if there is something that needs to be fixed in the ICANN structure then it could be put in the requirement for transition (most of which should be looked into by the accountability cwg).
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">especially since the Board, given its understanding of the its fiduciary responsibility sees itself as NOT representing the community. Adn the staff is governed
by a CEO that is not subject, in any way, to community appproval in hiring or contract renewal. The Community has NO influence over ICANN Staff.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Well in the RIR world the board (by by-law) acts in the interest of the organisation. They may also choose not to listen to the community but they usually wisely
choose otherwise.... ;).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">What does that mean? and how is ICANN community different from a typical RIR community.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In the RIRs there is no body with a vote that can overrule the will of the community in policy making.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The RIR board by the by-law could decide not to approve a policy proposal, its just that they have not had any reason to exercise such powers. So if you are saying
there has been consistence instances where a policy that achieved consensus in the ICANN community was overruled by the board, then there is definitely something wrong and will be good to have an example of such scenario to understand why they took such action
and determine how to avoid such in future. This is how we build the organisation from inside especially if we understand that ICANN is the home for gTLD<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Please when you think of who pays, think of it from the customer perspective, think of participation, think of the resources that's already been expended in this
current ICG process.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
How does the contractor paying hurt the consumers?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">I think it will be safer to answer this with another question, where will the contractor get the money to pay from?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
I persist in seeing the only real possibility of capture in a massively multistakeholder body is that the community process can be captured by ICANN corporate decisions made that disregard the community's consensus, and that is what we need to protect against.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Looks like you are now referring the MRT to be a MASSIVE multi-stakeholder body, please can we fashion out the composition and charter of this organisation so we appreciate
what we are looking at. It sure seem there is going to be a lot of mechanism required to ensure that the multistakeholder body is indeed inclusive.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888" lang="EN-US"><br>
avri</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">------------------------------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600" lang="EN-US">Seun Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br>
web: </span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600" lang="EN-US">Mobile:
<a href="tel:%2B2348035233535" target="_blank">+2348035233535</a></span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888" lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600" lang="EN-US">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank">
</a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888" lang="EN-US">The key to understanding is humility - my view !</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">------------------------------------------------------------------------<span style="color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">Seun Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br>
web: </span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B2348035233535" value="+2348035233535" target="_blank">+2348035233535</a></span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><br>
</span></i><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank">
</a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">NOTICE:</span></b> This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the
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<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key to understanding is humility - my view !<br></blockquote></blockquote></font><br></div></div>
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