<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi<br>
<br>
The recurring RFP approach would not cause any more turmoil than we
could have under the present contract construct. For example, a 5
year recurring RFP would be a longer contract period than the
current NTIA-ICANN contract (which is 3 years, <i>with two two-year
options to extend</i><i> that are entirely at the discretion of
the USG </i>which one can argue do not provide the kind of
contractual predictability we would want). Extensions, and whether
they might be awarded or not, merely contribute to longer term
uncertainty. W/r/t/ continuity and stability the operator,
according to section C.7.3 of the current contract, is required to
provide a "a plan in place for transitioning each of the IANA
functions to ensure an orderly transition while maintaining
continuity and security of operations" in the event that "the
Government selects a successor contractor." Of course these
safeguards should be kept to ensure continuity from one operator to
another post RFP. A recurring 5 year RFP offers more certainty
from a contracting perspective than what we have at the moment and,
it could be argued, should provide equal stability and continuity <u>and</u>,
importantly, greater accountability.<br>
<br>
Matthew<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/5/2014 10:13 AM, Maarten Simon
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:A6F74FEADD0ED84F8074E33349747581B989D6D3@kambx2.SIDN.local"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Garamond;
panose-1:2 2 4 4 3 3 1 1 8 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:NL;}
span.hoenzb
{mso-style-name:hoenzb;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Hi Milton,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">It is not that I see the Contracting co as a
non option but I try to get a better understanding of what
it will actually brings us.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">A clear one is that it probably makes a future
separation mainly from a legal perspective a bit easier. But
as stated by others, I think separation will in whatever
form always only be a nuclear option. (I do not like the
idea of a recurring 3 or whatever number of years RFP cycle
as it will likely cause a lot of political turmoil each time
which I think will not be supportive to the stability of the
function that the solution is supposed to warrant).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I am further still not sure if I am with you on
the power struggle. As I see it now the MRT will be in both
options a sort of the ICANN community minus the board and
staff. In that case I do not see much of a difference, and
certainly do not expect to see that in practice, between the
MRT telling the Contracting co to tell the ICANN board what
the ICANN board has to do or the MRT telling the ICANN board
directly what to do. In the first instance the ICANN board
has to follow orders because of a contract. In the second
the ICANN board has to follow orders because of its bylaws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">The improvement of the plan would be that we do
not need to discuss all kind of legal (capture, liability)
and political (jurisdiction) technicalities around an entity
we do not need. (as far as the bylaws option is technically
legally possible under Californian law).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Maarten<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org">mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> donderdag 4 december 2014 18:54<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CWG-Stewardship] FW: Do we really need
a Contracting Co.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Hi, Maarten<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">In your scenario, the MRT has to tell the board
to do something that it probably won’t want to do.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">In the CWG scenario, the MRT tells the
Contracting Co, which has no interest, what to do.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Clearly, your approach produces an internal
power struggle.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">If you say the MRT can unambiguously order the
board to spin off IANA according to the bylaws, you run into
California law problems; but even if you didn’t, you are
simply making the MRT an authority no different from the
Contract Co. How is that an improvement over the CWG plan?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Maarten Simon [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:maarten.simon@sidn.nl">mailto:maarten.simon@sidn.nl</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 4, 2014 11:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Milton L Mueller<br>
<b>Cc:</b> '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really
need a Contracting Co.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Milton,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Viable or legal possible are two different
things and yes I find the separability principle less
central than the stability one and am therefore willing to
accept something like the ‘kludgy patch’ as an escape from
ICANN as a worst case scenario and as the last resort
safeguard if all others fail.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I further wonder if there will be a different
‘ongoing power struggle between the MRT and the board’ in
the contract co situation or in the internal ICANN
situation. That all depends on the whole set of the
arrangements and in the end on the acceptance of the
authority of the MRT by the board.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Maarten<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Milton L Mueller [<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mailto:mueller@syr.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> donderdag 4 december 2014 15:52<br>
<b>To:</b> Maarten Simon; 'Eduardo Diaz'; 'Holly
Raiche'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really
need a Contracting Co.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Maarten<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I think this proposal is not viable. In
effect, it makes the ICANN board the contracting authority
for the IANA functions, thus eliminating the separability
principle. You try to patch this problem in a kludgy way
by saying that the MRT can “order the ICANN board” to give
up the IANA function, which in effect makes the MRT a
continuing legal entity, and paves the way for an ongoing
power struggle should the MRT and board come into conflict
over the future control of IANA. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">This is yet another example of people tying
themselves in knots and putting at risk the separability
principle in order to avoid the simple expedient of
creating a Contract Co. But why do you fear the Contract
Co so much? No clear rationale for avoiding this has ever
been put forward.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">If you want to be able to move the IANA
functions contract it is much cleaner and simpler to have
an independent, separate contract co.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org">mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Maarten Simon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Eduardo Diaz'; Holly Raiche<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really
need a Contracting Co.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I am of the same opinion and wonder, not
noing much about Californian corporate law, if we could
find a solution in adding specific elements to ICANN’s
bylaws specifically aimed on the IANA function. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">If we could arrange via the bylaws that the
ICANN board explicitly has to follow orders from a
MRT-like structure, we might not need a contract but
have an (internal) MoU/SLA or whatever. If the ICANN
board would at a certain moment in time still decide not
to follow orders of the MRT, I would assume it may be
sued by affected parties for violating its own bylaws.
We further may dictate in the bylaws that ICANN has to
give up the IANA function if decided by this MRT and of
course seal it by dictating that these specific articles
may only be changed with the explicit consent of the
MRT.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">As I said, I have no clue if such a
solution would be possible under Californian law. Under
my legal system I think it would.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Maarten<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org">mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eduardo Diaz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> woensdag 3 december 2014 1:19<br>
<b>To:</b> Holly Raiche<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need
a Contracting Co.?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Holly and all:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have the same questions and
concerns. Are we taking the route of a Contrac Co,
because is what NTIA is expecting to see as part of
the proposal or is it because concerns of ICANN
accountability. My impression is the second.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-ed<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:12 PM,
Holly Raiche <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net"
target="_blank">h.raiche@internode.on.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seun<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You have summed up the issue
wonderfully.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, we appear to be going down
the second route. But there are still questions
around that route. Alan’s (and Olivier’s and many
other's) inputs have asked hard questions about
the route - as have I. In particular, I asked
about the proposed Contract Co. If it is to be
created, what is to be its nature, size, powers,
funding. From Greg, it emerged that what was
envisaged was a shelf company and the multi
stakeholder processes under its umbrella would be
the mechanisms of accountability. Since then, it
appears that the Contract Co will be more than a
shelf company, so the many questions about its
nature, powers, funding remain. And without
answers, I am not sure why the first alternative -
fixing the accountability mechanisms - has been
rejected. It appears we are hoping the creation
of a legal entity (however small) will solve
problems. I remain to be convinced.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">Holly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3 Dec 2014, at 7:21
am, Seun Ojedeji <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com"
target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Chuck,<br>
<br>
Thanks a lot for sharing this
url....its really useful and i am
going to hope that the accountability
team are looking at scenarios like
that to fix ICANN. Inview of this,
there are generally 2 routes:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- Fix the
accountability mechanisms within ICANN
and let the NTIA role naturally go
away<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">- While
the accountability mechanism is yet to
be fixed, provide a means by which
IANA can still be moved out of ICANN
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I presume
we are currently going the second
route at the moment. So a question
that i may ask is, will it not be
better to work towards the first route
through the second route? This will
mean maintaining the ability to move
IANA from current operator with an
external body (can be an existing body
like ISOC, IETF etc) or the
lightweight (Contracting Co earlier
proposed) and then provide certain
principles/mechanisms that this CWG
expect to have been addressed within
specific time-frame.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">That will
give ICANN (and its community) enough
time to work on improving its
accountability measures within the
timeline indicated by this CWG.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 2, 2014
at 2:05 PM, Gomes, Chuck <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com"
target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Seun,</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Please see the
letter I sent to Fadi in 2013:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.icann.org/resources/correspondence/gomes-to-chehade-2013-08-30-en"
target="_blank">
https://www.icann.org/resources/correspondence/gomes-to-chehade-2013-08-30-en</a>
.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Chuck</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Seun
Ojedeji<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December
02, 2014 3:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Avri Doria<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[CWG-Stewardship] Do we really
need a Contracting Co.?</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">On Tue, Dec
2, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Avri
Doria <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:avri@acm.org"
target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">On
02-Dec-14 07:16,
Seun Ojedeji
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">I
also don't
understand the
view that ICANN
community and
corporate are
separate.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
The ICANN Board
and Staff are
independent of the
Community and can
overrule the
community either
by a vote of the
Board, or by
calling an action
'implementation'
that does not
require community
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Okay,
may i ask if this is
happening at the
moment and what the
NTIA role has been
in making sure it
does not happen?
because what we are
trying to transition
is the NTIA role and
not ICANN management
itself....if there
is something that
needs to be fixed in
the ICANN structure
then it could be put
in the requirement
for transition (most
of which should be
looked into by the
accountability cwg).
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">especially
since the Board,
given its
understanding of
the its
fiduciary
responsibility
sees itself as
NOT representing
the community.
Adn the staff is
governed by a
CEO that is not
subject, in any
way, to
community
appproval in
hiring or
contract
renewal. The
Community has NO
influence over
ICANN Staff.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Well in
the RIR world the
board (by by-law) acts
in the interest of the
organisation. They may
also choose not to
listen to the
community but they
usually wisely choose
otherwise.... ;).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">What
does that mean?
and how is ICANN
community
different from a
typical RIR
community.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">In
the RIRs there
is no body with
a vote that can
overrule the
will of the
community in
policy making.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">The RIR
board by the by-law
could decide not to
approve a policy
proposal, its just
that they have not
had any reason to
exercise such
powers. So if you
are saying there has
been consistence
instances where a
policy that achieved
consensus in the
ICANN community was
overruled by the
board, then there is
definitely something
wrong and will be
good to have an
example of such
scenario to
understand why they
took such action and
determine how to
avoid such in
future. This is how
we build the
organisation from
inside especially if
we understand that
ICANN is the home
for gTLD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Please
when you think
of who pays,
think of it from
the customer
perspective,
think of
participation,
think of the
resources that's
already been
expended in this
current ICG
process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
How does the
contractor
paying hurt the
consumers?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">I think
it will be safer to
answer this with
another question,
where will the
contractor get the
money to pay from?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
I persist in
seeing the only
real possibility
of capture in a
massively
multistakeholder
body is that the
community process
can be captured by
ICANN corporate
decisions made
that disregard the
community's
consensus, and
that is what we
need to protect
against.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US">Looks
like you are now
referring the MRT to
be a MASSIVE
multi-stakeholder
body, please can we
fashion out the
composition and
charter of this
organisation so we
appreciate what we
are looking at. It
sure seem there is
going to be a lot of
mechanism required
to ensure that the
multistakeholder
body is indeed
inclusive.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:#888888" lang="EN-US"><br>
avri</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CWG-Stewardship
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600"
lang="EN-US">Seun
Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University
Oye-Ekiti<br>
web: </span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"
lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600"
lang="EN-US">Mobile:
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B2348035233535" target="_blank">+2348035233535</a></span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600"
lang="EN-US">alt
email:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank">
</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"
lang="EN-US">The key
to understanding is
humility - my view !</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">------------------------------------------------------------------------<span
style="color:#888888"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">Seun
Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br>
web: </span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/"
target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">Mobile:
+2348035233535</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><br>
</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#006600">alt
email:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://goog_1872880453/"
target="_blank">
</a><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng"
target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#888888">The
key to understanding is humility -
my view !<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">NOTICE:</span></b> This
email may contain information which is confidential
and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for
the use of the named addressee only. If you are not
the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or
copy any part of this email. If you have received this
email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete
this message immediately.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CWG-Stewardship mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Matthew Shears
Director - Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mshears@cdt.org">mshears@cdt.org</a>
+ 44 771 247 2987</pre>
</body>
</html>