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Reminded me of quote often repeated by an architect friend:<br>
<br>
<pre wrap="">"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left
to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Attributed to
Antoine de Saint-Exupery</pre>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09-Jan-15 13:32, Kieren McCarthy
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAA4fB=19o6fb1Bjm=shv3bSA6YNQ0+g=0NOAuJYYDR1N6sGZpA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Important re: too complex.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I read all the comments and from those talking about it
being too complex came three things:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. That there were too many interconnections between the
four structures. The CSC recommends to the MRT that you may
need the IAP and so on. Way too much unnecessary process.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. That the structures as defined (or not defined) would
create a whole other set of processes: how members were
selected, what their charter and rules and methods would be,
and so on. Far simpler, for example, would be to say: the IAP
aspect will be filed by the ICC (as it already does
ICANN-style arbitration); the CSC will be formed by the GNSO
and ccNSO; the MRT will be created on the same lines as, say,
the ATRT i.e. let's not create yet more new processes; stop
reinventing the wheel.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. That all the roles outlined weren't actually needed. The
MRT doesn't need to be there all the time since 99.9 percent
of IANA transactions simply happen without a fuss. You don't
need a whole new CSC body because they are already largely
organized in other places. That the IAP may not be necessary
at all because various review and appeal mechanisms already
exist.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So this is what people meant by "too complex" and I think
this group should really consider those remarks. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The ICANN community does have a tendency to over-engineer
its policy processes and build new bodies for every new issue.
I think the comments were saying: hold on there, take a step
back and figure out whether all this is really needed in
reality or if we're building policy castles in the sky.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hope this is helpful.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kieren</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Avri
Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div> Hi,<br>
<br>
I have no problem seeing both of these as possibly be true
simultaneously - I see no paradox.<br>
<br>
One can argue that the set of entities Contract Co,
Contract holder, CSC, IANA, IAP, MRT, and the
interconnections between them makes for a complex
architecture. And if one beleives that it is more complex
than necessary to fulfill the IANA transition
requirements, then it may be said that it is too complex.<br>
<br>
While also realizing that we have a ways to go, especially
at the time the report was put out, defining the details
of the entities and the nature of the communication and
responsibility interfaces between those entities.<br>
<br>
Complexity without enough detail.<br>
<br>
avri
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 09-Jan-15 11:53, Donna Austin wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Milton,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Based on our analysis,
there were a significant number of comments
that said the proposal was too complex and
paradoxically the were also a significant
number of comments that said the proposal
lacked detail. We’re just reflecting what we
read in the comments.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Donna</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Milton L Mueller [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target="_blank">mailto:mueller@syr.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 9 January 2015 12:40
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kieren McCarthy; Donna Austin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CWG-Stewardship] RySG
analysis of public comments</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I think
the RySG did a good job of summarizing the
comments from their point of view, but I can’t
agree with one of their conclusions as to what
should guide future efforts: the proposal is
“too complex.” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The
statement that a proposal is “too complex”
implies that one could develop a proposal that
does the same things and has the same
safeguards and is less complex. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My
response to that is: show me. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We have
already seen ALAC try and completely fail to
deliver an alternative solution that is less
complex. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The “too
complex” charge strikes me as one of those
things that one would say after one’s first
confrontation with the proposal. It was my
first reaction, too. It is very easy to say,
it is a kind of superficial response. The real
issue is, however: what proposal is less
complex, and how would it work? Until we have
real, complete alternate proposals on the
table the characterization of one proposal as
“complex” is not very meaningful. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">If you
think the status quo is not complex, you don’t
understand what goes on in the current regime.
The NTIA is embedded in the US government in a
highly complex way; nothing simple about it. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">--MM</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="14acfacd017c0afe__MailEndCompose"></a><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kieren McCarthy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 8, 2015
11:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Donna Austin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship]
RySG analysis of public comments</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">For what
it's worth, I think this is a useful and
succinct summary. </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I'm
not entirely sure why the ALAC proposal
has been highlighted twice when no other
submissions have been specifically
mentioned and there were other proposals.
But apart from that this seems like a good
path forward to me.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kieren</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
-<br>
[sent through phone]</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p><span lang="EN-US">On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at
6:15 PM, Donna Austin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Donna.Austin@ariservices.com"
target="_blank">Donna.Austin@ariservices.com</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>All</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>In the
interests of sharing, a group of
RySG members conducted our own
analysis of the comments submitted
on the CWG Transition Proposal.
Provided below are our conclusions
and recommendations for next steps.
Also attached is a document we
prepared containing key excerpts of
comments as they relate to various
aspects of the proposal.</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Please accept
this information in the spirit that
it is offered—not as authoritative
but as the result of an analysis
developed by the RySG for our own
purposes. </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>We (Chuck,
Stephanie, Sarah and myself) will be
happy to answer any questions.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>RySG IANA CWG
Team Conclusions regarding ongoing
work of the IANA CWG</b></p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The RySG believes
that the following statements have
very strong support in the community
and hence can be used to guide future
decisions by the CWG:</p>
<p> A.<span> </span>The current
service of the IANA functions operator
is satisfactory and ICANN should
initially continue as the operator
when the transition occurs.</p>
<p> B.<span> </span>The IANA CWG
proposal as described in the request
for public comments is too complex and
does not contain enough detail.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Of the four
elements of the proposed IANA CWG
proposal, there appears to be
reasonable support for the CSC, MRT
and IAP in some form, although not
necessarily as described in the CWG
proposal.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The RySG believes
that the following statements need
further investigation and/or indicate
areas where additional work is
warranted:</p>
<p> <span> </span>i.<span>
</span>The overall structure of the
CWG proposal.</p>
<p> <span> </span>ii.<span>
</span>Contract Co.</p>
<p> <span> </span>iii.<span>
</span>Internal to ICANN option</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>RySG IANA CWG
Team Recommendations regarding Next
Steps</b></p>
<p> 1.<span> </span>Suggestions
made by commenters should be evaluated
based on the following criteria to
identify which ones should be
excluded, which ones should definitely
be considered further and which ones
need further investigation:</p>
<p> a.<span> </span>CWG
principles</p>
<p> b.<span> </span>Would they
contribute toward a simpler proposal?</p>
<p> c.<span> </span>Results of
the two surveys.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> 2.<span> </span>All
alternatives to the CWG proposal
should be examined in detail, not just
the one proposed by the ALAC, to
identify what alternatives or elements
of the alternatives should be
investigated further.</p>
<p> 3.<span> </span>An extension
of the targeted time frame of at least
60 days should be requested from the
ICG to allow for continued work and an
additional public comment period after
reasonable consensus is reached on a
proposal for submission to the
chartering SOs and ACs.</p>
<p> 4.<span> </span>The work of
the IANA CWG and Accountability CCWG
are properly dependent. The IANA CWG
should have the opportunity to revisit
the CWG Proposal, ALAC alternative,
and other options once the outputs of
Workstream 1 of the Accountability
CCWG are provided and consider the
implications for accountability as it
relates to the performance of the IANA
Functions. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks,</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Donna</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><image002.png></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>D</span><span>ONNA
AUSTIN</span></b><span><br>
</span><span>Policy and Industry
Affairs Manager</span><b><span></span></b></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span>The
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</div>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Gomes, Chuck [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com"
target="_blank">mailto:cgomes@verisign.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 8 January
2015 4:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Donna Austin;
Duchesneau, Stephanie; 'King,
Stacey'; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">
rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Couple of
Edits - Analysis Doc<br>
<b>Importance:</b> High</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks
to all three of you for the good
edits. The first attachment is a
redline that includes a couple edits
I made to the second paragraph and a
comment I added on page 3 regarding
the fact that the last two sections
will be sent to the CWG list. Please
let me know if you see any
problems. I also attached a clean
copy.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The
third document attached is a final
version of our excerpts. Note I
added an introduction.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Donna
– As our official rep, I think it
would be good if you sent the
documents as follows:</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">·</span><span
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US">To the RySG & NTAG
lists:</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">o</span><span
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US">Clean version of the
analysis</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">o</span><span
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US">Excerpts document</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">·</span><span
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US">To the CWG list:</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">o</span><span
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US">The last two paragraphs
of the analysis.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">o</span><span
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US">The excerpts document.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Can
you do that?</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Chuck</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Donna Austin [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Donna.Austin@ariservices.com"
target="_blank">mailto:Donna.Austin@ariservices.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January
08, 2015 4:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gomes, Chuck;
Duchesneau, Stephanie; 'King,
Stacey'; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">
rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Couple of
Edits - Analysis Doc</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I added the
‘internal to ICANN option’ as worthy
of further consideration.</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks,</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Donna</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><image002.png></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>D</span><span>ONNA
AUSTIN</span></b><span><br>
</span><span>Policy and Industry
Affairs Manager</span><b><span></span></b></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>ARI
REGISTRY SERVICES</span></b><span><br>
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the named recipients only. It is
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<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:%5Bmailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com%5D"
target="_blank">[mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gomes,
Chuck<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 8 January
2015 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Duchesneau,
Stephanie; 'King, Stacey'; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">
rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Couple of
Edits - Analysis Doc</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks
to both of you. I will hold off a
couple hours before finalizing and
distributing.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Chuck</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Duchesneau,
Stephanie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January
08, 2015 2:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'King, Stacey'; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">
rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Couple of
Edits - Analysis Doc</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="14acfacd017c0afe_OLE_LINK2"></a><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="14acfacd017c0afe_OLE_LINK1"></a><span
lang="EN-US">Thanks Stacy. Took a
stab at tweaking/shortening a bit. I
changed the recommendation slightly
to provide the opportunity to
actually revisit the proposals once
WS 1 outputs are published. Please
advise if this is not what we want.
Also added revisiting other
alternatives.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">Stephanie
Duchesneau</span></b><b><span
lang="EN-US"> <br>
</span></b><b><span lang="EN-US">Neustar,
Inc. / </span></b><span
lang="EN-US">Public Policy Manager<br>
1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, 4<sup>th</sup>
Floor, Washington, DC 20006</span><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><b><span lang="EN-US">Office:</span></b><b><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><a
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href="tel:%2B1.202.533.2623"
value="+12025332623"
target="_blank">+1.202.533.2623</a>
</span><b><span lang="EN-US">Mobile:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><a
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href="tel:%2B1.703.731.2040"
value="+17037312040"
target="_blank">+1.703.731.2040</a></span><span
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<hr width="100%">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a
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href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January
08, 2015 1:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">rysg-iana-transition-cwg@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Couple of Edits
- Analysis Doc</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Okay….fairly
wordy and it needs your edits, but
here is my suggestion for basic
language.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks!</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><IANA
CWG Public Comments Key Excerpts from
the RySG - 8 Jan 15.docx></span></p>
</blockquote>
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