<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'; font-size: 13px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Hi Milton,<div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">(Let me also point out that neither of the links you provided actually points to anything, at least not from where I am accessing the internet.)</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>My apologies. There seems to have been an issue.</div><div><br></div><div>The links are:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.schweizer.com.au/articles/Trusts_(SK00125466).pdf">http://www.schweizer.com.au/articles/Trusts_(SK00125466).pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_law">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_law</a>.</div><div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This person designates a trustee to hold the trust property. Who is that individual and what is the property in this case? In other words, who “owns” the IANA functions and is able to award them as “trust property” to ICANN or to someone else as the trustee?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>There are 2 possibilities re the Settlor (the ‘declarer’) of the trust . One is NTIA who could pass the function to ICANN as Trustee. The other is that ICANN self-declares that it holds on trust. Either is feasible and can be legally done. Note that it doesn’t need to be an individual who declares the trust it needs as to be a legal entity of which an individual is but now type.</div><div><br></div><div>As for what is the trust property, as I have responded to Jordan, that is a question that needs to be answered for any model where ICANN could be obliged to transfer something to someone else under certain circumstances or where that something is transferred to contract co by NTIA. Work will need to be done come what may on this. Clearly what comprises the ‘IANA function' is sufficiently well defined in the current NTIA contract to satisfy the USG lawyers that a) they have ‘property’ which could be given to someone else to run and b) they have sufficient legal weight to compel ICANN to transfer it to that someone else.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you tell me it is ICANN who a) owns the property, and b) designates itself as the trustee then it looks to me as if you’ve created a recursive hall of mirrors in which ICANN is accountable to no one but itself.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Yes, ICANN could self-designate itself as Trustee. Self-declared trusts are very common. Once it does that it changes the ownership structure so that instead of ‘owning’ the asset, it declares that it owns the ‘asset’ on trust for ‘the community’ and in the declaration of trust the terms of that trust are set out. If that were all then, yes, one could argue the point about recursive halls of mirrors BUT that is not all. As part of the declaration of trust a Guardian (Protector) is created (again, not an unusual event in trusts) and the terms of the trust declare what the powers of the Guardian are. </div><div><br></div><div>So for example:</div><div><br></div><div>1. NTIA transitions the IANA function (the property - to be defined) to ICANN by being the Settlor of a Trust under which ICANN holds the function on trust for the community (to be defined). ICANN is the Trustee and NTIA steps out of the picture. </div><div><br></div><div>2. The Deed of Trust under which NTIA settles the IANA function upon ICANN as Trustee contains all of the provisions under which the Trust will operate. Included in those provisions is that the Trust has a Guardian which is a committee of people nominated by the community (along the lines of the MRT perhaps). </div><div><br></div><div>3. The powers of the guardian include that changes to the Trust have to be approved by it, that it can commence a process for a new Trustee to be appointed in the place of ICANN, that it can commence a process for a new Functions Manager to be appointed in the place of ICANN and so on. </div><div><br></div><div>Hope this helps. As I’ve said, I think we are now at the stage where we need legal advice for the models we have on the table. </div><div><br></div><div><div apple-content-edited="true">
<p class="p1"><br></p>
<p class="p2">Cheers,</p>
<p class="p3"><br></p>
<p class="p2">Chris</p>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 29 Jan 2015, at 14:46 , Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think Jordan made a valid point, but phrased it badly. You’re still not off the hook.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">(Let me also point out that neither of the links you provided actually points to anything, at least not from where I am accessing the internet.)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You and Holly are saying that a trust does not necessarily create another entity. Your reasoning is based on this definition:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(26, 26, 26);">"A<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is not a separate<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>legal entity</b>. Rather, a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is a relationship where a person or company (the trustee) is under a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>legal</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>obligation to deal with property owned by the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(<b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>property) for the benefit of some other person or persons (beneficiaries) or for some specific purpose or purposes (objects)."</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">But this is only true when there is an individual – someone with agency – who holds property. This person designates a trustee to hold the trust property. Who is that individual and what is the property in this case? In other words, who “owns” the IANA functions and is able to award them as “trust property” to ICANN or to someone else as the trustee?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you tell me it is a committee similar to the MRT, which is independent of ICANN then you have created another entity that must be capable of creating a “LEGAL OBLIGATION to deal with the…trust property for the benefit of the beneficiaries.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you tell me it is ICANN who a) owns the property, and b) designates itself as the trustee then it looks to me as if you’ve created a recursive hall of mirrors in which ICANN is accountable to no one but itself.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you tell me the MRT that owns the trust property is a part of ICANN, again we have ICANN deisngating itself as the trustee; it is unclear how such an entity can create a legal obligation on ICANN without being independent of ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></a></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; position: static; z-index: auto;"><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chris Disspain<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, January 28, 2015 9:02 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jordan Carter<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Another alternative proposal - addressing some questions<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Hi Jordan,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Apologies for taking so long to respond to you on this.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Acknowledging that trusts are not necessarily familiar to all and that any proposal re the transition will be subjected to legal advice, in simple terms, you are incorrect and thus neither your A) nor B) below hold true.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">but it does always involve the creation of a legal personality,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">No it does not. A trustee must be a legal entity. A TRUST itself is not a legal entity.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Whilst I do not hold wikipedia out as a necessarily reliable source, check out </span><a href="http://wiki.auda.local/index.php" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">http://wiki.auda.local/index.php</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">And whilst the below is a quotation from lawyers in the Australia system (</span><a href="http://www.schweizer.com.au/articles/Trusts_(SK00125466).pdf)" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">http://www.schweizer.com.au/articles/Trusts_(SK00125466).pdf)</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">, the principle regarding trusts holds good in any system based on common law (such as the USA) unless amended by statute which is, of course, why legal advice is required on this and other proposed models.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="color: rgb(26, 26, 26);">"A<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is not a separate<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>legal entity</b>. Rather, a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is a relationship where a person or company (the trustee) is under a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>legal</b>obligation to deal with property owned by the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(<b>trust</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>property) for the benefit of some other person or persons (beneficiaries) or for some specific purpose or purposes (objects)."</span><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(148, 67, 251);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(148, 67, 251);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(148, 67, 251);"><span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On 23 Jan 2015, at 21:56 , Jordan Carter <</span><a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Interesting thread.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">My knowledge of trust law is not extensive but it does always involve the creation of a legal personality, at least in my jurisdiction (Nz - Anglo common law).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Thus it's difficult to see how the AUDA proposal is internally coherent.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Either<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">A) the trust is a separate entity owning the right to the Iana functions, as it can then transfer these away from Icann if the guardian (the trustees?) trigger the applicable processes,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Or <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">B) the trust isn't an entity in which case it isn't a trust - it's just some sort of agreement to do something in a given circumstance.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">In the former case many of the issues are the same as contract co. In the latter case, it isn't clear why this is better than a simpler internal solution involving ICANN's bylaws, which would at least be clear.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Decent advice on this would need to be urgently procured if the CWG intends to pursue it.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Either way, the ambition is to concentrate stewardship of the DNS in Icann, which I do not support - I don't believe we should be concentrating power over core Internet infrastructure compared with how this is managed today. I still haven't heard a reasoned argument as to why it's a good idea to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">But that point of view is well known and one on which Chris and I do not see eye to eye. :-)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Best<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Jordan <br><br>On Friday, 23 January 2015, Guru Acharya <</span><a href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">gurcharya@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">As I understand, trusts are generally established between three legal entities: the author, trustee and the beneficiary. Under trust law in my jurisdiction, the person who reposes or declares the confidence is called the “author of the trust”; The person who accepts the confidence is called the “trustee”; the person for whose benefit the confidence is accepted is called the “beneficiary”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><I quote Greg from a previous exchange on the list><br>Under US law, trusts operate essentially the same way as you describe. The "author" is typically called the "Settlor" or the "Grantor," but the role is the same. Typically, a trust is used for the holding of money or other assets. The Settlor typically donates the assets to the Trust, and the Beneficiary ultimately gets the benefit of these assets. The Trustee (sometimes also called the Administrator) manages the Trust, and has a "fiduciary responsibility" to both the Settler and the Beneficiary (but typically, no responsibility to anyone else). Sometimes, the Trustee legally named in the document will hire a professional "Administrator" to run the trust (this often happens where a family member is the Trustee).<br></quote><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">In the AUDA proposal and from the discussions on this thread, I identify the following entities:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">1) Trustee - IANA Functions Operator (IFO) - Presently ICANN<br>2) Author/settlor/grantor - Guardian - Community - Respresented through a CCWG<br>3) Beneficiary - Community/customers of IANA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Please correct me if I'm wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Im curious to know:<br>1) Will the Guardian be a legal entity?; if not, how is it represented in the trust?<br>2) Will the Beneficiary also be a legal entity?; if not, how is it represented in the trust?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Greg Shatan <</span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Thanks, and safe travels.<br><br>Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">Gregory S. Shatan</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);"> </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(32, 18, 77);">Partner</span><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(192, 80, 77);">Abelman Frayne & Schwab</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">666 Third Avenue<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Symbol; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">|</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>New York, NY 10017-5621</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Direct</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;"> </span><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(17, 85, 204);">212-885-9253 <b>| </b></span><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Main</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;"> </span><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(17, 85, 204);">212-949-9022</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Fax</span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;"> </span><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(17, 85, 204);">212-949-9190 <b>|</b> </span><b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Cell </span></b><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(17, 85, 204);">917-816-6428</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a target="_blank"><b><i><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(17, 85, 204);"></span></i></b></a><b><i><a href="mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gsshatan@lawabel.com</a></i></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">ICANN-related:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><a target="_blank"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"></span></b></a><b><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a></b><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a href="http://www.lawabel.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><b><i><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(17, 85, 204);">www.lawabel.com</span></i></b></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:24 AM, Chris Disspain <</span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ceo@auda.org.au</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">But really quickly - <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Just to confirm, the registries (and not the larger multistakeholder community) are the beneficiaries of the trust. This has some downstream consequences (see below). <o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Not necessarily. That is a matter for the community to discuss and come to consensus on. Certainly the proposal envisages that the Guardian would be multistakeholder. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris Disspain | Chief Executive Officer<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">.au Domain Administration Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">T:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204111" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">+61 3 8341 4111</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| F:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204112" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">+61 3 8341 4112</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">E:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ceo@auda.org.au</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>| W:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">www.auda.org.au</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">auDA - Australia's Domain Name Administrator<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>On 23 Jan 2015, at 16:53, Greg Shatan <</span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris,<br><br>Please see below.<br><br>Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Chris Disspain <</span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ceo@auda.org.au</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Thanks for your comments. My apologies for mischaracterising contract co as having ‘shareholders’. To your other comments and generally:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Also, trusts are separate legal entities, so it is similar to Contract Co in that regard (and thus prey to many of the same "complexities.")<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">A trust is not a legal entity. A trustee is a legal entity. <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris: I think there are nuances here that are beyond both of us (hence the need for targeted legal expertise). Here is an excerpt from the US government website (</span><a href="http://www.usa.gov/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">www.usa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">), describing trusts:<br><br> Creating a trust (or trust fund) establishes a legal entity that holds property or assets for the person who created it. The person who creates the trust can be called a grantor, donor, or settlor. When the grantor creates the trust he or she appoints a person or entity (like the trust department of a bank) to manage the trust. This person or entity is called a trustee. The grantor also chooses someone who will ultimately benefit from the trust, this person is the beneficiary.<br><br></span><a href="http://www.usa.gov/topics/money/personal-finance/trusts.shtml" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">http://www.usa.gov/topics/money/personal-finance/trusts.shtml</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Further research reveals apparently contradictory statements regarding the legal and juristic standing of trusts, as well as instances in which trusts are legal entities for certain purposes (e.g., tax) and not others (e.g., standing to sue). I can only conclude that some real expertise in trust law is needed to sort this out.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">It's my understanding that trusts are created to hold property. Shouldn't the Trust (and not the Trustee) own the IANA function? If the Trust doesn't hold the IANA Functions, what assets are held by the Trust?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Because the trust is not a legal entity, the trustee holds the property for the benefit of the beneficiaries. The asset is the right to run the IANA function and that is what is held by the trustee.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I'm not familiar with this "guardian" concept (unless it was created uniquely for this proposal). Is this an Australian law concept? Do you know if this is similar to the "trust protector" concept in the US? <o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">It’s not an Australina concept however the word may be different. It is used synonymously with protector, appointor, supervisor and the like.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I believe this proposal simplifies the contract co proposal, by removing the creating of Contract Co. - the Contract Co. here is not “ICANN”. ICANN is performing the IANA naming functions, for the benefit of the “customers” of the IANA naming functions (who are the stated beneficiaries of the trust, replacing the need to create “Contract Co.”).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Justin to confirm, the registries (and not the larger multistakeholder community) are the beneficiaries of the trust. This has some downstream consequences (see below). <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">The Trustee also has higher fiduciary obligations, which require them to always act in the best interests of the beneficiaries (not just for themselves).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">What if the interests of the beneficiaries (i.e., the registries) diverge from the interests of the multistakeholder community generally or the public interest? Wouldn't that require the Trustee (i.e., ICANN) to act in the registries' interest, even if it is to the detriment of other stakeholders? That seems at odds with the idea of accountability to stakeholders, generally. We would need to find a way to deal with this.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">The Trust can be “settled” by the NTIA passing on the “right to perform the IANA naming functions” to ICANN as the trustee. So, two parties: NTIA as settlor; ICANN as trustee.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Trustee can always unilaterally declare a trust - but this would be a redundant question now in light of explanation above.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">The beneficiaries of the trust would be the “customers” of the IANA naming functions - as described in the ICG RF.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">The guardian is the “protector” of the beneficiaries. It can’t be the entire pool of beneficiaries, but it can be someone, or some group of people, who represents the beneficiaries.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">All of the above is subject to confirmation by the relevant legal experts that this is workable under Californian law.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Thanks for the further explanation. It is an interesting proposal, with some issues (as others have as well). I look forward to working through it, getting the necessary legal advice, and seeing if this will work.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On 23 Jan 2015, at 08:00 , Greg Shatan <</span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">A few quick comments, inline below:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">Greg</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Chris Disspain <</span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ceo@auda.org.au</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Greetings All,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Earlier today Paul Szyndler from auDA sent to RFP3 another alternative proposal (attached).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I have received a number of questions off list from some ccTLD colleagues and others and thought it might be helpful to address them all in this email to the CWG.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">1. Are there legal issues with the Trust solution? I am not an expert in Californian law but as a lawyer I do know a fair bit about trusts and their structure. The proposal is workable in general terms but there may be nuances of Californian law generally, or specifically as it applies to Californian corporations like ICANN, which would make the proposed structure overly complicated or problematic. Like the 'contract co’ proposal and auDA’s original ‘golden by-law’ proposal I expect this to be put to independent legal experts who can advise on the merits of each of the proposals. <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">2. Isn’t creating a trust just creating 'contract co' by another name? No. My understanding of 'contract co’ is that it would be a separate legal entity owned by some, yet to be identified, group of shareholders.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris: This is not correct. The proposal was that Contract Co would be a not-for-profit corporation, which don't have shareholders (or any kind of owner). Also, trusts are separate legal entities, so it is similar to Contract Co in that regard (and thus prey to many of the same "complexities.") <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">With the trust, ICANN would own the IANA function but declare in a legally binding document that it did so on trust for the relevant stakeholder community.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">It's my understanding that trusts are created to hold property. Shouldn't the Trust (and not the Trustee) own the IANA function? If the Trust doesn't hold the IANA Functions, what assets are held by the Trust?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">And the Guardian of the Trust (see the proposal for details) would control the process by which ICANN could be replaced as trustee in a defined set of circumstances. This is thus an inherently ‘internal to ICANN’ approach.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I'm not familiar with this "guardian" concept (unless it was created uniquely for this proposal). Is this an Australian law concept? Do you know if this is similar to the "trust protector" concept in the US? <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">3. Why would ICANN be the trustee? In simple terms because auDA believes in an 'internal to ICANN’ approach. We believe that ICANN should run IANA but that there should be the ability to move the IANA function away in certain defined circumstances. That is what this proposal (and our first ‘golden by-law' proposal) achieve and that’s what differentiates them from the ‘contract co’ proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I know I don’t need to say this but for the avoidance of doubt, this is an auDA proposal. I have not discussed it with my fellow ICANN directors <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I will not be on the RFP3B call Friday as I’ll be somewhere mid-air between Dubai and Melbourne. However, Paul Szyndler will be on the call and will happily enter into any discussion on the proposal and answer (or undertake to get answers to) any questions that may be raised.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">I hope this is helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(66, 66, 66);">Cheers,</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Greg <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div><div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Chris Disspain | Chief Executive Officer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">.au Domain Administration Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">T:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204111" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">+61 3 8341 4111</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> | F:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204112" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">+61 3 8341 4112</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">E: </span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ceo@auda.org.au</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> | W:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://www.auda.org.au/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">www.auda.org.au</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">auDA – Australia’s Domain Name Administrator<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Important Notice -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>_______________________________________________<br>CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br></span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br></span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br>_______________________________________________<br>CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br></span><a target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></a><a href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br></span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br><br>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Jordan Carter<br>Chief Executive, InternetNZ<o:p></o:p></span></div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">+64-21-442-649 |<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Sent on the run, apologies for brevity<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"> </span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">_______________________________________________<br>CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><br></span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</span></a></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div><style type="text/css">
p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px}
p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Verdana; color: #9443fb}
p.p3 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Verdana; color: #9443fb; min-height: 16.0px}
</style></div></span></body></html>