<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Folks<div><br></div><div>This is just another input and is NOT the final advice nor the only legal input that will be considered. Let the legal sub team and the larger working group study ALL of the inputs and then come back with the scooping document they have been assigned to develop which will, in turn, be subject to EXTERNAL legal advice.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div>Holly<br><div><div>On 9 Feb 2015, at 11:33 am, Graeme Bunton <<a href="mailto:gbunton@tucows.com">gbunton@tucows.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I read it with some interest, and as was pointed out by Milton and others in the Accountability WG, it is legal that advocates from and for a particular perspective. Which is of course fine, so long as we don't treat this as definitive legal opinion for our purposes.<br><br>To me, it seems to suggest either of two outcomes:<br>- The re-domiciling of ICANN to a jurisdiction that would allow the community to assert itself upon the board<br>- Some version of the external to ICANN option we've been discussing<br><br>Graeme<br><br><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015-02-09 1:33 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:db26d7089a99413497cb289ea99f33ae@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">People who read this should keep in mind that Jones Day is ICANN’s lawyer and as such has an interest in, if not an obligation to, interpret or represent the law in ways that serve the interests of its client.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></a></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:cwg-rfp3-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>James Gannon<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, February 8, 2015 5:11 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RFP3<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[CWG-RFP3] CCWG California Law Response<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I believe that the CWG should be aware of the response from Jones Day to the CCWG’s questions of California law noted below while we are considering options and they will feed into the acceptability of both models under discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/accountability-cross-community/attachments/20150208/ed62a5b3/AccountabilityQuestionsforCCWG-fromJonesDay-0001.pdf" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/accountability-cross-community/attachments/20150208/ed62a5b3/AccountabilityQuestionsforCCWG-fromJonesDay-0001.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have copied an excerpt extracted and notes on the domainmondo article below:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domainmondo.com/2015/02/icann-lawyers-nix-icann-accountability.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.domainmondo.com/2015/02/icann-lawyers-nix-icann-accountability.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">>>Initial Responses to the Community Working Group’s California Law Questions, 7 February 2015,from Jones Day (ICANN's lawyers) to questions submitted by the Cross Community Working Group (CCWG).... (excerpts below, full responses <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/accountability-cross-community/attachments/20150208/ed62a5b3/AccountabilityQuestionsforCCWG-fromJonesDay-0001.pdf" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-decoration: none;">here</span></a>)--<br><br>Jones Day: “…. It is important to note that, even in the context of members and delegates, California law provides that the activities and affairs of ICANN still must be conducted and all corporate powers must be exercised by or under the direction of the Board. Accordingly, members and delegates cannot force the Board to take a certain action or overturn a Board decision. The rights of members and delegates under California law are limited and are more closely associated with approval rights over specified actions, rather than the right to second guess or supersede Board action or inaction. For example, members would only be entitled to approve the Board’s budget and would not be able to propose or approve a separate budget. As with any new structure, adding “members” or “delegates” raises a considerable number of governance issues, including the mechanisms to hold these new members or delegates accountable, how these members/delegates would be selected (and how could they be changed), what specified matters would the members/delegates be entitled to approve, what would be the applicable voting threshold for each specified matter, how often would member/delegate meetings be held and how much notice would be required for those meetings, and how would the creation of members/delegates affect the existing Board selection structure. Further, any new structure must be evaluated against the question of whether the new structure actually solves the underlying problem or meets the underlying goal. In some respects, the introduction of “members” or “delegates,” while initially appealing, may not solve the underlying problems and could simply result in moving the “problems” to another body of individuals where similar accountability concerns would persist (i.e., who watches the watchers) ….<br><br>“4. In the case of inaction by the Board on an issue developed through community consensus, is it possible to have a mechanism that will empower the community to require the Board to take action? <br><br>“No. California law does not provide for a mechanism that would empower the community, regardless of whether ICANN has members or not, to force the Board to take action on a community proposal. The activities and affairs of ICANN must be managed and all corporate powers must be exercised under the ultimate direction of the Board….” <o:p></o:p></span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">James Gannon<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Director<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cyber Invasion Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dun Laoghaire, County Dublin, Ireland<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Office: +353 (1)663-8787<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cell: +353 (86)175-3581<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Email<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net?subject=Via:%20Email%20Signature" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">:james<span lang="EN-IE">@cyberinvasion.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">GPG:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://keybase.io/jayg" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://keybase.io/jayg</a></span></b><span lang="EN-IE" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div></div></div><br><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre></blockquote><br><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
_________________________
Graeme Bunton
Manager, Management Information Systems
Manager, Public Policy
Tucows Inc.
PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634</pre>_______________________________________________<br>Cwg-rfp3 mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Cwg-rfp3@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">Cwg-rfp3@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-rfp3</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>