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Hi,<br>
<br>
While I agree that the legal information is necessary, I do not see
how it will solve the Internal-External conundrum. I expect that
both side of the coin, i.e. that all of the solutions, perhaps with
tweaks, are all legally viable. The legal info is necessary for
fine tuning, but can someone explain how it will possibly resolve
the diametrically opposed opinions about the best CWG proposal.
Even if one of the solutions is deemed legally problematic, do we
expect those who insist on an External solution to all of a sudden
accept an Internal solution? Or vice-versa? Or will they just
adjust the legal aspects of their favored solution to continue
supporting their postion?<br>
<br>
The Integrated proposal we will be discussing tomorrow is an attempt
to bridge that gap, that is certainly its intended goal The
Integrated model and its various configurations may or may not be
helpful in bridging the gap, we think it might be. I believe,
though, that it is essential for us to bridge that gap somehow if we
expect to arrive at a solution that is at least acceptable to most.
To my mind, at least, that is one of our most critical tasks. Note:
we do not consider it so much a new solution as one that builds on
aspects of both of the existing solution paths and tries to find
mechanisms that support the dual nature, internal & external, of
the solution.<br>
<br>
I do agree that we should finalize work on CSC and IAP as those seem
to figure into all corners of the current solution space. But
waiting until the legal experts tell us which of the solutions paths
is the right one, may not be an optimal use of our time.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24-Feb-15 06:48, Eduardo Diaz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAO3PLbAb+d+z9kWmuDCdJbxn_3=ay6XRvx5gVcDnNztgLBxRBw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Jonathan:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope we can get the legal advice way in advance to the
proposed F2F meeting. Looking forward to a healthy discussion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for the explanation.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-ed</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 6:15 PM,
Jonathan Robinson <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info" target="_blank">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Ed,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks for raising this. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>In my view, the question (of
Internal / External) remains to be dealt with and
possibly in the full CWG. But … to date it has
significantly occupied the attention of the group
and we are, to some extent, at an impasse until we
are assisted with legal expertise.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Therefore, and in response to
questions asking what we are doing about dealing
with key operational aspects of the IANA function in
the post NTIA stewardship world, the design teams
are primarily intended to assist in the interim with
fleshing out key (operationally oriented) aspects of
the draft proposal.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>We will have to continue with
/ revert to questions of internal and external but
not at the expense of dealing with everything else.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I trust that helps.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Jonathan</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Eduardo Diaz [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com"
target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 23 February 2015 16:57<br>
<b>To:</b> James Gannon<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info"
target="_blank">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>; Greg
Shatan; Avri Doria; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a></span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Call for
suggestions to design teams</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Johnathan:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand the way of
moving forward by using "agile" teams to
focus on specific areas of the final
proposal but I am confused as to how these
teams will help in tackling the questions of
internal. vs. external (and now the
"integrated") proposal. Is this issue
(internal/external) going to be discussed
during the full CWG meetings? </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-ed</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at
8:14 PM, James Gannon <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net"
target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi
Johnathan,</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As I
asked (remotely) at the Singapore
meeting, how are we planning to work in
this method while having two distinct
(Possible 3 now) models on the table,
Internal-External-Integrated, are all 3
models to be included in the live draft
proposal? With the exclusion of some of
the documentation teams that would be
cross model I would wonder how we are
going to work on multiple proposals at
once.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jonathan
Robinson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 22,
2015 11:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Greg Shatan'; 'Avri
Doria'</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[CWG-Stewardship] Call for
suggestions to design teams</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>All,</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Here are a
few brief notes down as to how I see
the working method from now on. My
aim here is to ensure that we are
aligned in understanding of the
working method and, if not, that we
work towards being aligned. </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I see it as
follows:</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span>1.</span><span> </span><span>We
will work on and from a live and
evolving draft proposal (outline and
partial content in preparation)
which seeks to address the full
required scope of what is needed by
the ICG and through the ICG, the
NTIA. This draft to be in
circulation with the CWG as soon as
possible.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span>2.</span><span> </span><span>To
the extent that the evolving draft
in 1 above contains areas of detail
that need developing, these will be
picked off and dealt with by
short-lived and focused design
teams. The design teams will work
according to the proposed mechanics
(CWG-Guidelines for a Design
Team-Final.docx) and their work
should ideally always be able to be
linked back to the draft proposal in
1 above (by direct reference to a
specific section or sections in the
draft proposal).</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span>3.</span><span> </span><span>Another
of the four attachments to Lise’s
email at the start of this thread
(CWG-DesignTeamList.xlsx) contained
an initial “seed” list of 3 proposed
design team topics (admittedly
without the anchor of reference back
to the draft proposal in 1 above but
we felt it was important to get
moving on this). </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><span>4.</span><span> </span><span>The
overarching issue of how to deal
with separability <i>in extremis</i>
is a critical point but it should be
undertaken in parallel with the work
described in 1-3 above and in
conjunction with any legal advice we
receive over time. The work to be
undertaken on this overarching issue
may need to continue to be tackled
by the whole CWG (but not to the
point that it displaces all other
necessary work) or it may be best
moved forward by a design team. I
don’t have a firm view on that.</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Perhaps the
thinking around this process is
already clear and you feel this
content is repetitive but, in case
not, I thought it worthwhile
re-iterating it.</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thanks,</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Jonathan</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> Greg Shatan [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 22 February 2015 22:46<br>
<b>To:</b> Avri Doria<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[CWG-Stewardship] Call for
suggestions to design teams</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Avri --<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">One more thing
re the Integrated Model. While I
believe it can be further
discussed and refined in a design
team, it is on the agenda for
Tuesday's full CWG meeting. After
that, it can probably be moved off
into a design team for further
refinement and then brought back
to the full group.<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Feb
22, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Greg Shatan
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Avri,<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
design teams (or task
forces) are emphatically not
only for process issues.
For instance, in my view
design teams need to be set
up for issues such as the
following:<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1.
Specifying and drafting
service level documentation
(specifying and drafting may
be two different design
teams, or just two different
deliverables of one design
team).<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2.
Specifying and drafting
escalation documentation<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3.
Specifying and drafting
reporting requirements
documentation<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">4. IPR
issues, including the IANA
trademark and domain name<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">5.
Replacing (or not) the NTIA
validation/authorization
function, and if replacing
it, designing/documenting
the function, and creating
an implementation path (this
may be 3 design teams)<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As such,
a design team to explore the
Integrated Model would
certainly fit.<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As a
final clarification, design
teams are not decision
teams; they are supposed to
bring the draft
deliverable(s) back to the
full team for debate,
discussion, revision and
approval. <span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at
11:28 AM, Avri Doria
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
Are design team only
for process issues?<br>
<br>
If not, perhaps a
design team,
contingent on how
Tuesday goes - of
course, to further
work on the Integrated
Model approach.<br>
<br>
But I am just not sure
if this sort of topic
fits the intent of the
design teams.<br>
<br>
avri<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
22-Feb-15 11:14,
Lise Fuhr wrote:<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Dear
all,<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal">This
is a call for
suggestions to
design teams.
If you have
any issues
that you think
are relevant
for a design
team please
provide the
group with a
submission of name,
a brief description of topic
and scope and
finally an
indication of
who should
to be lead of the
team. <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Included
are an example
of relevant
design teams,
the “Draft
Working
methods” and
“Draft Design
team
Guidelines”.<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Best
regards,<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Jonathan
and Lise<span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre>_______________________________________________<span lang="EN-US"></span></pre>
<pre>CWG-Stewardship mailing list<span lang="EN-US"></span></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><span lang="EN-US"></span></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a><span lang="EN-US"></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CWG-Stewardship mailing
list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
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target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a><span
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>Gregory S.
Shatan </span></b><b><span>ï</span></b><b><span> </span></b><b><span>Abelman
Frayne & Schwab</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><b><span>Partner</span></b><b><span> |
IP | Technology |
Media | Internet</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>Gregory S. Shatan </span></b><b><span>ï</span></b><b><span> </span></b><b><span>Abelman
Frayne & Schwab</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><b><span>Partner</span></b><b><span> |
IP | Technology | Media |
Internet</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><b><span>666 Third
Avenue | New York, NY
10017-5621</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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href="mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com" target="_blank">gsshatan@lawabel.com</a></span></i></b><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p><b><span>ICANN-related: <i><a
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br>
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href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
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href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>NOTICE:</span></b> This
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<div class="gmail_signature"><b>NOTICE:</b> <span>This email may
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legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named
addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you
must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If
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sender and delete this message immediately.</span></div>
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