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<DIV>Hi Greg,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">your points
made to ask for more clarity on the implementation details to be included in the
proposals are fair. The implementation question was raised by Larry Strickling
in Singapore, and since them I feel – having had several discussions – that
there is a broad range of understanding within the various communities what does
this mean. </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">I’ve taken
this to initiate a discussion at the next ICG call (tomorrow). I hope the ICG
could find common understanding within relatively short time. The outcome may –
or may not – have also an impact on the protocols and numbers proposals.</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">A related
CWG request to the ICG may be helpful.<BR><BR>Best
regards<BR><BR>Wolf-Ulrich<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=gregshatanipc@gmail.com
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">Greg Shatan</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 23, 2015 11:59 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=jrobinson@afilias.info
href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">Jonathan Robinson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=jp1@expri.com href="mailto:jp1@expri.com">John
Poole</A> ; <A title=cwg-stewardship@icann.org
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CWG-Stewardship] A liaison from the Board to
CWG</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>It's all very nice that Milton and Seun and John agree with each other, but
I don't think any of us can be the authority on the level of detail required in
our proposal -- not me, not Milton, not Seun, not John. Because it's not
our opinion that matters. I'll leave it to our chairs to determine exactly
how to proceed, but I think we should seek clarity from the ICG regarding the
level of implementation detail they expect in our proposal.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For instance, is it sufficient to provide the skeleton of an SLA/MoU (as
the CRISP team did) or even just a general indication that additional
documentation is needed (as the IETF team did)? Or is a fully drafted
contract, ready for signature (or at least negotiation) the only thing that is
sufficient? Or something in between (a detailed term sheet)?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Similarly, if a new group needs to be formed (even if it is just an ICANN
working group) is it sufficient to say that a charter will be drafted that will
contain at least x, y and z, or is a fully drafted charter needed? Or is it
something in between?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For the IAP, do we need an actual dispute resolution procedure or just a
mention that there will be one?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't want to make more work for everybody (including me). And I'd
rather have less work than more, and get this done faster rather than
slower. So, I would actually prefer to be wrong.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But let's find out from the ICG what they would consider to be a complete
proposal. That's what matters. They in turn can consult Larry
Strickling if they feel there's any ambiguity in their own minds. Then we
can go forward with certainty.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I keep coming back to one thought, however -- if the CRISP/IETF level of
detail is sufficient, and we turn in something with that level of detail, and
that's essentially what goes to the NTIA, and the NTIA approves that, there will
be mamy weeks (er even months) of further work needed before the IANA Functions
Contract can be terminated and the post-IANA world can begin. Is that really
what's intended?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Greg</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Jonathan Robinson <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info"
target=_blank>jrobinson@afilias.info</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV lang=EN-GB vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Thanks
Seun,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Agreed,
these “reference proposals” are very helpful to us in various ways and as we
develop our draft, I think we should continue to be aware of these as exactly
that, very useful references.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Jonathan<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
lang=EN-US style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Seun
Ojedeji [mailto:<A href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com"
target=_blank>seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 23 February 2015
21:37<BR><B>To:</B> Greg Shatan<BR><B>Cc:</B> John Poole; <A
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target=_blank>cwg-stewardship@icann.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[CWG-Stewardship] A liaison from the Board to CWG<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P>Hi Greg,<U></U><U></U></P>
<P>2 out of the 3 communities have submitted to ICG and I have not heard ICG
indicate that their proposals did not adequately address ICG questions. So
there is enough reference to have an idea of what a response to ICG RFP looks
like; for instance the RIR proposal indicates SLA principles but those
principles will then be used by relevant experts to develop the actual SLA at
a later time, another example is the actual contract/agreement wording which
will be developed by the relevant legal experts. I think this is also largely
how the IETF proposal is structured.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P>So it may be efficient to have a general agreement on a transition plan and
principles before the actual text of each aspect of the plan is
drafted.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P>Cheers!<BR>sent from Google nexus 4<BR>kindly excuse brevity and
typos.<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 23 Feb 2015 21:54, "Greg Shatan" <<A
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target=_blank>gregshatanipc@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>John, it's become clear that the NTIA is going to want a
turnkey proposal. A proposal that does not include all the
implementation pieces would be sent back as incomplete. It may be
possible to engage in some informal discussions with the ICG, etc., to see if
we're on the right track, so we don't waste time and resources, but the
submitted proposal has to be such that it can be activated seamlessly upon the
extinction of the NTIA IANA Functions Agreement.<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Christopher, the only ones who would be directly
remunerated for working with the CWG would be the independent legal counsel;
they will be remunerated by ICANN. Everyone else is a volunteer.
That said, for some people, it may be part of their job responsibilities to
participate, while others may be doing this outside of any mandate from an
employer or client. So, "volunteer" may mean different things to
different people.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Greg<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Christopher Wilkinson
<<A href="mailto:lists@christopherwilkinson.eu"
target=_blank>lists@christopherwilkinson.eu</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Thankyou, John. Very interesting and relevant comments and
advice.<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>> … unnecessary waste of resources (time and attorney
fees)<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>BTW, who is being remunerated by whom for work in this
area? I am under the impression that the members and participants of CWG are
volunteers. Correct?<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Regards<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>CW<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 23 Feb 2015, at 19:39, John Poole <<A
href="mailto:jp1@expri.com" target=_blank>jp1@expri.com</A>>
wrote:<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dear Jonathan and Lise and Greg:<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">I very much support the idea
of a Board liaison. I suggest consideration be given, in choosing the
liaison, of a member of ICANN senior staff who has access not only to the
Board, its Chair and the ICANN CEO, but also ICANN legal staff and outside
counsel (Jones Day). The CWG is now grappling with very sensitive issues
that could impact the Board, ICANN as a whole, and its future legal
liabilities post-Transition (see, for example, my earlier post to Avri <A
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-February/001879.html"
target=_blank>http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-February/001879.html</A>
)<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">It is also for this reason, I
have some concerns about the methodology proposed going forward--"design
teams" etc. My perspective, of course, relates to the external Trust
proposal with which I am most familiar ( <A
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-February/001774.html"
target=_blank>as amended</A> ). I have no problem with Jonathan's most
recent <A
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-February/001882.html"
target=_blank>Proposed Design Team: IANA Service Levels</A> however I would
suggest that the "design team" first begin their work by obtaining from the
IANA department, the existing, in place, IANA Service Levels metrics (from
which many reports are presently published) and the existing Complaint
Process for IANA-related complaints. Then ask what is missing, needs to be
changed, or added?<BR><BR>At our last meeting it was said by Greg Shatan
that the CWG proposal needed to be "turn-key" (all the details included).
Some disagreed then, I disagree now. We need a proposal that sets forth a
framework in sufficient detail to meet the requirements of NTIA,
expectations of ICG, and include components deemed necessary by the Names
community, in order to transition NTIA out of its current role "in the
coordination of the Internet’s domain name system (DNS)." Once ICG has
approved the CWG proposal, then additional work can be done to make it
"turn-key." If the ICG rejects the CWG initial proposal, we will not have
wasted time and money unnecessarily.<BR><BR>In the context of the external
Trust model, the Trust instrument (document) does not need to be drafted
now--that would be an unnecessary waste of resources (time and attorney
fees)--it should be sufficient to indicate the sources of its principles (<A
href="http://netmundial.br/netmundial-multistakeholder-statement/"
target=_blank>NETmundial Statement</A>, <A
href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/affirmation-of-commitments-2009-09-30-en"
target=_blank>Affirmation of Commitments</A>) and its purpose. The drafting
of the Trust instrument itself, at the appropriate time, would need to
include not only the CWG attorney or successor Counsel on behalf of the
global multistakeholder community, but also ICANN legal staff and ICANN's
counsel Jones Day, as well as counsel for the US government and perhaps
others. I would assume, for example, that the ICANN Board, as part of its
fiduciary duties to the Corporation in preparing for the IANA transition,
already has been advised and received a legal memorandum of potential new
liabilities ICANN is facing once it no longer has benefit of "government
contractor immunity" and similar defenses available to it by virtue of its
NTIA contract. Terms of the Trust instrument may provide ways to lessen or
obviate those potential liabilities, antitrust or otherwise.<BR><BR>Further,
in view of some comments at ICANN 52, it would also be advisable to include
the makeup of its initial Board of Trustees, the methodology for selection
of successor Trustees, as well as the jurisdiction where the Trust is to be
registered. As to jurisdiction, we need input from the CWG attorney. As to
the Board of Trustees issues, I would recommend first obtaining input and
recommendations from ICANN's present Board Chairman and CEO. Right now NTIA
provides some support and non-binding advice and counsel for ICANN's Board,
<I>e.g.</I>, when governments or others complain about ICANN policies or
actions. Post-transition, the US government will be just another member of
GAC. It is possible, or even likely, post-transition, ICANN, particularly
its Board of Directors, will come under increased pressures, not only from
stakeholders within ICANN who are jockeying for position and power, but also
governments, particularly those who really do not believe in
multistakeholderism nor support the idea of a free, open, stable and secure
Internet and DNS. Therefore a Board of Trustees supportive of ICANN and
multistakeholderism is a critical, somewhat sensitive
issue.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">Finally, Greg has posted <A
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-February/001869.html"
target=_blank>[CWG-Stewardship] Proposed Design Team: IANA IPR, including
IANA Trademark and Domain Name</A> -- in the context of the external Trust
it is proposed that the Trust for the global multistakeholder community hold
all such property--tangible and intangible--"that the Trust property include
the IP referenced by<BR>the IETF proposal <<A
href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ianaplan-icg-response-09"
target=_blank>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ianaplan-icg-response-09</A>>
("<A href="http://iana.org/" target=_blank>iana.org</A>"and other associated
marks), as well as the Internet "authoritative root server" referenced in:
<A href="http://www.gao.gov/new.items/og00033r.pdf"
target=_blank>http://www.gao.gov/new.items/og00033r.pdf</A>, in addition to
all of the U.S. Government’s rights and duties included within its
“stewardship” role over the Internet and DNS, including the right to issue
the IANA Functions Contract, and its related IP--e.g., InterNIC, a
registered service mark of the U.S. Department of Commerce, licensed to
the<BR>Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and
Numbers.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">If, however, it is a Design
Team's job is to eliminate one or more of the four proposals pre-ICANN52 in
the course of their work, then CWG leadership needs to be clear about that
now.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Best regards,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>John Poole<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P
class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<BR>CWG-Stewardship
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org"
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target=_blank>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</A><U></U><U></U></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>CWG-Stewardship
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org"
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clear=all>
<DIV> </DIV>-- <BR>
<DIV class=gmail_signature>
<DIV dir=ltr>
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style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #17365d'>666
Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621</SPAN></B><SPAN
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<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Direct</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'> <SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'>212-885-9253<SPAN> </SPAN><B>|<SPAN> </SPAN></B></SPAN><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Main</SPAN></B><SPAN><SPAN
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style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'>212-949-9022</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN
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style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'>212-949-9190<SPAN> </SPAN><B>|</B><SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Cell<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1155cc'>917-816-6428</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><I><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'><A
href="mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com"
target=_blank>gsshatan@lawabel.com</A></SPAN></I></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>ICANN-related:<SPAN> </SPAN><I><A
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target=_blank>gregshatanipc@gmail.com</A></I></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif"></SPAN></P>
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style='FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'><A
href="http://www.lawabel.com/"
target=_blank>www.lawabel.com</A></SPAN></I></B><SPAN
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