<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Greg,<br></div>Thanks for the quick reply which helped clarify the purpose of Design Team G. When I said "premature" I meant in the same context as your statement that "perhaps this is premature 'in the CWG bubble,'" which frankly, is my sole focus. I know you and others are involved in other processes and keeping a close eye on the broader process which is a good thing--I thank you and the others for being watchful and diligent. I agree 100% with your statement: <i>"To my mind, it's actually pretty simple -- the best place for the
trademark (and thus the domain name) is the grantor/owner of the right
to offer IANA services -- in the external trust model, it would be a
trust asset; in the Contract Co. model, it would be Contract Co., in the
internal models it would be ICANN. A third party owner doesn't make a
lot of sense in any of our models."</i><br><br>Remember I am not an "ICANN insider" so I will defer to your and Jonathan's and Lise's wise judgment on how to best proceed on this--perhaps even the formality of a design team can be dispensed with--it sounds like you need to move quickly "to slow the train down." If so, do whatever is necessary to stop that<i> runaway train!</i><br></div>Best regards,<br></div>John Poole<br><div><div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">John,<div><br></div><div>I think you have misunderstood the scope and purpose of Design Team G, and also the current status (and even the original intent) of the "proposed models."</div><div><br></div><div>First, Design Team G is anything but premature. The ICG, the numbers community, the protocol parameters community and the IETF itself are all moving the trademark/domain name train down the track. Numbers proposed it, protocol parameters stated it did not conflict with their proposal, the IETF stated they would be happy to be the "host" for this IP. On their last call, the ICG seemed very interested in giving this proposal further consideration right now, given the non-objection by protocols and IETF's position (perhaps because they don't have that much to do). Perhaps this is premature in the "CWG bubble." but it's not premature in the larger world. Part of the inspiration for the design team is to have a position to inject into the ICG's discussion and to slow the train down. (It may be that a design team is not needed for this, but if we don't use a design team, we'll need to use another vehicle to determine how the CWG wants to act. And we should act soon -- even if it is just to tell the ICG to shelve the discussion of this IP until our proposal is determined, since they may just be wasting their time.)</div><div><br></div><div>As for scope, I do agree that the description could be written less as a reaction to these activities, and more out of proactive desire to examine the issue for our own purposes. However, I think that such an examination is within the scope of the DT as proposed, as it would be part of recommending how to react to the proposal. I would be happy to clarify this aspect of the proposal, or to look at some suggested changes in language on the DT proposal to clarify this.</div><div><br></div><div>I must disagree explicitly with your statement that "<span style="font-size:12.8px">The above provision of the external Trust model presents an obvious conflict with the proposal of Design Team G." There is no conflict, because the DT proposal does not take a position regarding the proper home of the trademark and domain name. The Design Team itself could, and it could well be completely aligned with the external Trust model (or at least be non-conflicting with it) (see below).</span></div><div><br></div><div>As for the proposed models -- we can't look at every issue solely through the lens of the "proposed models." Indeed, our current work plan seems intent to avoid using the models as defining factors for the issues (in my opinion, with the idea that resolution of issues can lead to much greater clarity on the models). On a conceptual basis, the criteria for the proper home of this IP can be determined without knowing which model (or some yet-unknown or hybrid model) ultimately prevails. To my mind, it's actually pretty simple -- the best place for the trademark (and thus the domain name) is the grantor/owner of the right to offer IANA services -- in the external trust model, it would be a trust asset; in the Contract Co. model, it would be Contract Co., in the internal models it would be ICANN. A third party owner doesn't make a lot of sense in any of our models.</div><div><br></div><div>However, my conclusions, even though founded in an understanding of IP law and the issues in our group (and outside), are probably not sufficient, and should be vetted with other members of the CWG. Hence the call for the Design Team.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope that clears things up.</div><div><br></div><div>Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 6:59 PM, John Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jp1@expri.com" target="_blank">jp1@expri.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Lise and Jonathan:<br>I raise again (as I did in <a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cwg-stewardship/2015-February/001891.html" target="_blank">my email last Monday</a>), my same concerns in regard to the proposed <b>Design Team G - IANA Intellectual Property Rights, including the IANA Trademark and Domain Name</b>, in that the proposed <b>External Trust Model</b> provides that all such property ("<a href="http://iana.org" target="_blank">iana.org</a>"and other associated marks), and other tangible and intangible property, become property of the (external) Trust whose beneficial owner (equitable title) is the global multistakeholder community.<br><br></div><div>The above provision of the external Trust model presents an obvious conflict with the proposal of Design Team G. Further, Design Team G, as proposed, does <b>not</b> even purport to deal with any of the pending work of CWG-Stewardship or any component common to all 5 CWG models but, instead, proposes a Design Team <b>to respond</b> <b>to an aspect of a proposal already submitted to ICG by another community</b>--the Numbers Community--to the apparent exclusion of consideration of how that is, or may be, dealt with in any of CWG's 5 proposed models--(a) contract co; (b) external trust; (c) internal; (d) internal trust; (e) integrated.<br><br>Maybe I have misunderstood the purpose of CWG "Design Teams." Is it appropriate to propose CWG "Design Teams" merely for the purpose of responding to another Community's (Numbers, Protocols) Proposal which has already been submitted to ICG, <b>before</b> CWG-Stewardship has even developed and submitted its own proposal? <br><br></div><div>I therefore object to <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocwgdtstwrdshp/Design+Teams+List#G" target="_blank">proposed Design Team G</a> as: (1) out of scope; (2) premature.<br><br></div><div>Best regards,<br></div><div>John Poole<br></div><div><br></div>ref. Step 4 - <i>Co-Chairs of CWG to review proposal within two working days of receiving the proposal, <b>taking into account any comments or suggestions</b> that may have been received on the CWG mailing list in response to the DT proposal</i><br></div></div><span><div><div><br><br><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 2:13 PM, Lise Fuhr <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lise.fuhr@difo.dk" target="_blank">lise.fuhr@difo.dk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear all,<br>
Here is as requested the list of design teams. This will also be available<br>
on the website. We will ensure that the list continuously is updated.<br>
Best regards,<br>
Jonathan & Lise<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
CWG-Stewardship mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></span></div>
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