<div dir="ltr">Kieren,<div><br></div><div>Your email is rife with overstatement and inaccuracy. As a starting point, continually referring to the Client Committee as the "closed committee" reminds me of the tactic that certain Republicans have of calling the Democratic Party the "Democrat Party." Just call it by its proper name. And the committee and its mailing list are not unique in that regard -- the Design Teams are also "closed committees" as well with "by request only" mailing lists with limited posting rights -- but you don't seem very interested in joining any of them....</div><div><br></div><div>The Client Committee was fully proposed and disclosed on CWG calls when we started the process of looking for counsel, so it is hardly unilateral, and there were opportunities for discussion on those calls. But, since you don't actually attend very many calls (4 out of 26, at last count), you wouldn't know that.</div><div><br></div><div>Despite your complaint, I have made it clear that currently there some "ICANN legal" people on the list and why -- I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that my previous email "crossed" with yours. It's also clear if you look at the list on the Wiki. I'll do your research for you and provide you with the link: <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocwgdtstwrdshp/Client+Committee">https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocwgdtstwrdshp/Client+Committee</a> You will see that there are two inhouse attorneys and no outside attorneys on the list. (I don't know where it "appears" otherwise.) </div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure what you mean by "closed" meetings. The meetings are all being recorded, and Adobe connect is being used, so there are public notes and chat. They are as open as any RFP group and any Design Team meeting.</div><div><br></div><div>As to whether ICANN's staff should be voluntarily excusing themselves, you can take that up with ICANN's staff. In point of fact, ICANN staff has had no "direct influence" on the on our discussions with counsel. To the extent they were on the calls with our lawyers, they were essentially silent. I think Sam Eisner posted two small factual points in the chat on the last call. But it's all available for your listening pleasure should you want to satisfy yourself. Our working methods are still a work in progress and things may change. Nonetheless, I think it's incorrect to term the current situation as one of "elevated position and direct influence." Since this is not the case, it's ridiculous to say that anyone thinks that "elevated position and direct influence" is appropriate. It's also ridiculous to think that ICANN legal is so fiendishly brilliant, and that the members of the client committee and Sidley Austin are such naive clods, that we can be manipulated and influenced by ICANN legal through the mere ability to post to a list (which they haven't done) and to get on a call (which has only been done silently). Finally, it's ridiculous to think that you can "clearly" deduce what everyone in this very varied CWG thinks, especially about something that isn't so in the first place.</div><div><br></div><div>To reiterate, that doesn't mean that this is the way things will stay. Far from it. And I understand the importance of managing the perception of influence, even if it is only perception. But this tendentious, exaggerated method of discussing suggestions for change actually slows down the process of change, rather than accelerating it. As my grandmother used to say, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar."</div><div><br></div><div>Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Kieren McCarthy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kieren@kierenmccarthy.com" target="_blank">kieren@kierenmccarthy.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class="">> <span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Is ICANN staff a stakeholder in the transition or not?</span><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div></span><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Yes. </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Although in this case - the process for getting independent legal advice - I would question whether it was appropriate for ICANN staff to be involved at all.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">But that's not even where we are.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">* As I understand it, Jonathan is proposing/has implemented a closed committee to act as the intermediary between the transition group and the independent lawyers. (Something that appears to have been done unilaterally.)</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">* That closed committee will have its own mailing list that people have to actively ask to be subscribed to (something that is out of step with the rest of the transition processes). </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">* Even when subscribed, those people will not have posting rights.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">* However, ICANN's lawyers - both internal and external - as well as ICANN staff appear to already be on this list and have posting rights to it. (At least </span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">I think that is the case; it's not clear, despite questions asking for clarity.)</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">* It's also appears to be the case that the committee intends to have closed meetings. And to allow ICANN's lawyers and/or staff to be a part of those meetings. </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">In other words, in the one area where ICANN's staff should be voluntarily excusing themselves to avoid a fairly obvious conflict of interest, they appear instead to actually have an elevated position and direct influence on the process. </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div>I'm at a loss to understand why either ICANN staff or the closed committee members think this is appropriate. It's clear that no one outside those two groups does.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Kieren</span></div><div><br></div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 12:34 PM, David Conrad <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:david.conrad@icann.org" target="_blank">david.conrad@icann.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Kieren,<div><br><div><span><blockquote type="cite"><div><span style="font-size:14.6666669845581px;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">And I don't see why ICANN's staff should be given posting rights to the new mailing list either</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>Is ICANN staff a stakeholder in the transition or not?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>-drc</div><div>(ICANN CTO but speaking only for myself)</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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