<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Avri,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I agree. We could communicate with the other operational communities before this goes to the ICG, or let the ICG sort it out. If we do the latter, we may want to put these alternatives in the proposal, to save them the step of thinking them up.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:12pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365d">Gregory S. Shatan </span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#17365d">ï</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#17365d"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#c0504d">Abelman
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<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:30 PM, Avri Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#330033">
Hi,<br>
<br>
Yes, I should have said apparent assumption. <br>
<br>
I think only option 1 is viable unless the other operational
communities inform us otherwise.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 07-Apr-15 19:24, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> I don't believe they
assumed that the contracts would move to IANA. I read the
language in I.A.7 as a bit of a "fudge"/ambiguity. In any
event, I think that all 3 options are open:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">1. ICANN retains the
contracts with the RIRs and IETF, with a minor amendment
allowing ICANN to offer the service, but have the service
fulfilled by its wholly-controlled affiliate (or
wholly-owned subsidiary) PTI.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">2. ICANN enters into an
"assignment and assumption" agreement whereby PTI takes over
ICANN's position in the agreements.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">3, ICANN and the
RIRs/IETF terminate the current agreements, and PTI enters
into new agreements with the RIRs and IETF.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">The first option fits
the principle of "change as little as possible (and explain
any change you make".</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">The second option fits
the principle of "make PTI as easily separable from ICANN as
possible."</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">The third option fits
the principle of "let's make everything messy and
complicated."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
<br clear="all">
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Avri
Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#330033"> Hi,<br>
<br>
One of my comment for the Sidley report is this
assumption that the contracts would move to IANA.<br>
<br>
I see no reason for this to happen unless the IETF/IAB
& RIRs/CRISP want them to. It seems to me that the
contracts could remain with ICANN and that ICANN would
use the affiliate to do the work.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 07-Apr-15 15:29, Andrew Sullivan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Hi,
On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 11:04:14AM +0200, Lise Fuhr wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Please see the attached initial discussion draft of the two models from our legal counsel.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>Thanks for this. I've read it. I have some questions. Questions for
Sidley are listed, and then some observations for our own discussion
(which needn't take up Sidley's time) follow when appropriate in
square brackets.
In I.A, particularly in numbers 4 and 6, I can't tell whether the
assumption is that there are new agreements between PTI and the RIRs,
and PTI and IETF. I think the fact that PTI is a new legal entity
means that new agreements would be required. Is that correct? [The
reason I ask this is because there is a possible risk of things coming
apart if the other operational communities need to be engaged in a new
negotiation. If PTI just takes the existing agreements and does a
global search and replace for ICANN with PTI, that's nice, but it
doesn't solve everything. For instance, the IETF would have to
publish a new version of RFC 2860. It's worth remembering that every
grievance everyone has with an existing document comes into play once
the document is opened for editing.]
By way of comparison, in II.B, does using Functional Separation permit
ICANN to continue working under its existing MoUs? I'd assume yes,
because AFAIK none of the existing agreements specify the internal
arrangements of how ICANN delivers the service. [Notwithstanding
Milton's point about getting it "right", given the timeline there is a
significant advantage to not having to negotiate, I think, no?]
III.C talks about CSC. In the case of a full legal separation with
independent governance, would the CSC be needed at all? Presumably
the arrangements between PRI and their customers would be a
contractual one, and as such the management of such contractual
disputes ought to be via those contracts, and not through an extra
body. Or is the point that the way such a contractual arrangement
would solve such disputes ought to be along the lines of the CSC?
In III.D.2 there is a question about "ultimate accountability over
ICANN's stewardhip". I'm not entirely sure which cases this applies
to. If there is a legal separation, how is this question relevant for
CWG? Under the legal separation described, PTI becomes the new IANA
functions operator. If there's full independent governance of PTI,
for instance, isn't ICANN's stewardship completely gone -- it has only
responsibility for policy, and not for IANA operation at all, right?
Is that part of the point of this question?
On III.I, I'm not sure what the difference is between CSC and IRP.
Why are both things needed?
Best regards,
A
</pre>
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