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Hi,<br>
<br>
That, though, is not for us to decide but them. <br>
<br>
And it is the ICG that needs to deal with that detail. We have
already had our virtual wrists slapped for presuming anything about
what the other operational communities might or might not be willing
to do. Any proposal we come up can have options, but we cannot
presume that they will do anything.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07-Apr-15 19:38, Milton L Mueller
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Let
me reiterate an important detail that many seem to be
overlooking.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
RIRs CRISP team proposed the following:
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">“The
Internet Number Community proposes that a new contract be
established between the IANA Numbering Services Operator
and the five RIRs. The following is a proposal to replace
the current NTIA IANA agreement with a new contract that
more directly reflects and enforces the IANA Numbering
Services Operator’s accountability to the Internet Number
Community….</span></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_TOC31559"><font color="#0b0b0b" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0B0B0B">
</span></font></a><font color="#5b9bd5" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#1F4E79;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%"><font
color="black"><span style="color:windowtext">It is
expected that the RIRs, as the contractual party of
this agreement, will draft the specific language of
this agreement.</span></font></span></font><font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">New.
Contract. Therefore it would not be difficult at all for
the RIRs to develop this new contract in a way that named
PTI, rather than ICANN Inc., as the contractor. Since the
proposed PTI is the same unit as the current ICANN IANA
department, and they are happy with that service, I see no
reason why the RIRs would have a problem with this.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">1.
ICANN retains the contracts with the RIRs and
IETF, with a minor amendment allowing ICANN to
offer the service, but have the service fulfilled
by its wholly-controlled affiliate (or
wholly-owned subsidiary) PTI.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">2.
ICANN enters into an "assignment and assumption"
agreement whereby PTI takes over ICANN's position
in the agreements.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">3,
ICANN and the RIRs/IETF terminate the current
agreements, and PTI enters into new agreements
with the RIRs and IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
first option fits the principle of "change as
little as possible (and explain any change you
make".<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
second option fits the principle of "make PTI as
easily separable from ICANN as possible."<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
third option fits the principle of "let's make
everything messy and complicated."<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Verdana" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span></font><font
face="Verdana"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg</span></font><font
face="Arial"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"></span></font><font
face="Verdana"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Tue, Apr
7, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Avri Doria <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
One of my comment for the Sidley report is
this assumption that the contracts would move
to IANA.<br>
<br>
I see no reason for this to happen unless the
IETF/IAB & RIRs/CRISP want them to. It
seems to me that the contracts could remain
with ICANN and that ICANN would use the
affiliate to do the work.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On
07-Apr-15 15:29, Andrew Sullivan wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 11:04:14AM +0200, Lise Fuhr wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Please see the attached initial discussion draft of the two models from our legal counsel.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Thanks for this. I've read it. I have some questions. Questions for<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Sidley are listed, and then some observations for our own discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">(which needn't take up Sidley's time) follow when appropriate in<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">square brackets.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">In I.A, particularly in numbers 4 and 6, I can't tell whether the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">assumption is that there are new agreements between PTI and the RIRs,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">and PTI and IETF. I think the fact that PTI is a new legal entity<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">means that new agreements would be required. Is that correct? [The<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">reason I ask this is because there is a possible risk of things coming<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">apart if the other operational communities need to be engaged in a new<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">negotiation. If PTI just takes the existing agreements and does a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">global search and replace for ICANN with PTI, that's nice, but it<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">doesn't solve everything. For instance, the IETF would have to<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">publish a new version of RFC 2860. It's worth remembering that every<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">grievance everyone has with an existing document comes into play once<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">the document is opened for editing.]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">By way of comparison, in II.B, does using Functional Separation permit<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ICANN to continue working under its existing MoUs? I'd assume yes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">because AFAIK none of the existing agreements specify the internal<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">arrangements of how ICANN delivers the service. [Notwithstanding<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Milton's point about getting it "right", given the timeline there is a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">significant advantage to not having to negotiate, I think, no?]<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">III.C talks about CSC. In the case of a full legal separation with<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">independent governance, would the CSC be needed at all? Presumably<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">the arrangements between PRI and their customers would be a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">contractual one, and as such the management of such contractual<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">disputes ought to be via those contracts, and not through an extra<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">body. Or is the point that the way such a contractual arrangement<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">would solve such disputes ought to be along the lines of the CSC?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">In III.D.2 there is a question about "ultimate accountability over<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ICANN's stewardhip". I'm not entirely sure which cases this applies<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">to. If there is a legal separation, how is this question relevant for<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">CWG? Under the legal separation described, PTI becomes the new IANA<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">functions operator. If there's full independent governance of PTI,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">for instance, isn't ICANN's stewardship completely gone -- it has only<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">responsibility for policy, and not for IANA operation at all, right?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Is that part of the point of this question?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">On III.I, I'm not sure what the difference is between CSC and IRP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Why are both things needed? <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">A<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre>
</blockquote>
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