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I agree with Jordan and Greg - these statements should be retained
(or if necessary modified with the addition "counsel advises").<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/20/2015 6:21 AM, Jordan Carter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAK2bTy8OTtpPcwtvhGx0mU2KN2_moqT7GK4NjMjeDYGH3EK4pQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">+1 to Greg.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jordan</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 April 2015 at 16:05, Greg Shatan
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Respectfully, I
disagree with Eduardo and Chuck on the following issue:</div>
<span class="">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font
color="#0000ff">2] Items (a) & (c) in
section "The weaknesses of the proposed
structure are as follows." (page 3): </font></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font
color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px"><b><font
color="#0000ff">"(a) Requires forming a new
entity and on an ongoing basis attending to a
set of associated corporate formalities, <u><i>although
those can be fairly minimal</i></u>;"</font></b></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px"><b><font
color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></b></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px">
<div style="font-weight:bold"><font
color="#0000ff">" (c) May have some negative
impact on operational efficiency due to the <b>functional
separation, and the separate legal status
will introduce some </b><b>additional
costs, <u><i>although those should not be
significant</i></u>." </b></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px">
<div style="font-weight:bold"><b><font
color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></b></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8000001907349px">
<div><font color="#0000ff">
<div style="display:inline!important">I
suggest to delete the two statements pointed
here by an underline/italics. Both
statements are seemly subjectives and tend
to steer the reader</div>
to think that this will be easy to implement
and that it will not be costly. There has not
been any deep analysis done on these to
support either statement.</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div class="gmail_default">
<div style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">As a general
point, we have asked counsel to provide us not
only with their technical expertise, but also with
the benefit of their practical experience. Here
they are telling us two things based on their
experience:</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">-- corporate
formalities "can be fairly minimal."</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">-- additional
costs introduced by operating PTI with a separate
legal status "should not be significant."</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Our counsels'
practical experience certainly includes forming
corporate entities and attending to corporate
formalities (sometimes called "corporate
housekeeping") -- I'd daresay among our counsel
they have done and continue to do this for
hundreds (if not thousands) of corporations. From
my own experience and knowledge, corporate
formation and corporate housekeeping are
essentially ministerial tasks, and are neither
particularly complex or time-consuming (though it
requires some familiarity and experience to do
these tasks). It's really a fairly objective and
entirely reasonable statement for someone with the
requisite knowledge to say that these "can be
fairly minimal." Indeed, I can't think of a
scenario where attending to corporate formalities
would not be fairly minimal.</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Similarly, I'm
fairly sure counsel have dealt many times with the
costs associated with having business units in
wholly-owned or controlled subsidiaries rather
than divisions, and they are aware of what those
costs are. Again this seems like a reasonable
statement and one that I'm sure is made
objectively. From my experience, the costs that
are a direct result of running a business as a
subsidiary, as opposed to as a business unit
within the same entity, are not significant.</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">In sum, I
believe these are both reasonable and very
unsurprising statements. I know that it is not
the intent, but I think that giving the impression
that the opposite (corporate formalities are not
fairly minimal; costs resulting from operating a
business as a subsidiary (vs. as a business unit)
are significant) could be true creates FUD where
there should be none. Therefore, I think it would
be appropriate to accept this advice.</font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">If we don't
want to accept counsel's advice, I don't think the
appropriate response is to delete it. Rather, I
think the appropriate action would be to ask counsel
to explain the basis of the statements.
Alternatively, we could insert "counsel advises"
after "although" in each statement. Let me say that
I don't believe we need to do either of these
things. But, if the group is not willing to accept
these and move on, these are the courses of action
that should be considered.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Greg</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 11:51 AM,
Gomes, Chuck <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com"
target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
think that Eduardo is probably right that
we really don’t know whether the increased
cost for the legal separation will be
significant or not without a detailed
analysis by the Finance Team. Now that we
are specifically leaning toward the legal
separation approach, I suggest that we
request an analysis by the Finance Team
right away. It will take them awhile to
do it and they will probably have some
questions for us but the sooner we get
that started the better. Xavier
understands that a lot of the shared IANA
costs can still be shared so that will
minimize the increase but there will still
be increases. As far as the language in ©
below, I suggest we say something along
these lines instead saying ‘</span><b><i><u>although
those should not be significant</u></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">’:
“The significance of the increased costs
cannot be determined until a detailed
analysis is done by the ICANN Finance
Team, but the CWG has requested that
analysis and expects to have at least
preliminary results before the public
comment period ends.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Chuck</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Eduardo Diaz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 18, 2015 4:43
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CWG-Stewardship]
[client com] Draft: Summary of Legal
Structure for CWG Proposal</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My comments about
the S-A document 20179247_3 on legal
structure:</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1] It is not
clear who is going to decide about
the concepts of designator vs.
members (2nd para, page3). Is this
an item for the CCWG to resolve?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2] Items (a)
& (c) in section "The
weaknesses of the proposed
structure are as follows." (page
3): </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>"(a) Requires
forming a new entity and on an
ongoing basis attending to a set
of associated corporate
formalities,
<i><u>although those can be fairly
minimal</u></i>;"</b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>" (c) May
have some negative impact on
operational efficiency due to
the </b></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>functional
separation, and the separate
legal status will introduce
some </b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>additional
costs, <i><u>although those
should not be significant</u></i>." </b></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suggest to
delete the two statements
pointed here by an
underline/italics. Both
statements are seemly
subjectives and tend to steer
the reader</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> to think that
this will be easy to implement and
that it will not be costly. There
has not been any deep analysis
done on these to support either
statement. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-ed</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 18,
2015 at 1:49 PM, Client Committee
List for CWG <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cwg-client@icann.org"
target="_blank">cwg-client@icann.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
All,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Attached
is a summary of the current
legal structure under
consideration by the CWG.
This also includes the CCWG
dependencies.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Please
let us know if you have any
comments or would like to
discuss.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best
regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sharon</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">SHARON</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">FLANAGAN</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
Partner<br>
<br>
</span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sidley
Austin LLP</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1.415.772.1271"
target="_blank">+1.415.772.1271</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sflanagan@sidley.com" title="Click to send email to
Flanagan, Sharon"
target="_blank">sflanagan@sidley.com</a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Jordan Carter<br>
<br>
Chief Executive <br>
<b>InternetNZ</b><br>
<br>
04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>
<br>
Skype: jordancarter<br>
<br>
<i>A better world through a better Internet </i><br>
<br>
</div>
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<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
+ 44 (0)771 247 2987</pre>
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