<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't believe any of this would require withdrawing our submission, or even contemplating doing so.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Rather, we are straying into a discussion of implementation.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Most of these issues would be dealt with in PTI's articles of incorporation and bylaws. Obviously, these don't exist yet.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Before the transition can occur, PTI needs to be formed, its articles of incorporation need to be prepared, and its bylaws need to be prepared. We have not had extensive discussions of who will do this, when it will happen, what the involvement of the CWG (or a follow-on IRT) will be, etc. (There are many other implementation issues/details to deal with, but these are the most germane to our discussion.)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Rather than discussing these almost by accident in a thread on PTI Board Composition, I suggest that we reserve these points, and then insert them in the implementation discussion at the appropriate points. These are details by comparison with the bigger questions of how to draft the articles and bylaws for PTI.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I would particularly caution against making an inadvertent decision that we are going to leave it to ICANN to draft these articles and bylaws. Even if that is the case, we have not discussed whether the CWG/IRT will provide "terms of reference" for those bylaws, whether CWG/IRT and outside counsel will review drafts of these articles and bylaws, etc. These are significant points and we should discuss them directly and in full, not just in the context of one particular question.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Alan Greenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
That would depend on how the Bylaws of PTI are written, as to whether the
PTI Board had discretion or if the sole Member had to agree. It all
amounts to the same thing as ICANN is ultimately in control.<br><br>
But WHY are we having this discussion? is someone REALLY planning to
withdraw the submission to the ICG, re-open the proposal, revise it, and
then resubmit to chartering bodies for approval????????????<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br>
Alan</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><br>
At 01/07/2015 03:15 PM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite">Just for clarity Alan, who will
make the decision to alter the composition? which would also mean
altering the bylaw. PTI board? Or ICANN board? <br><br>
For the later I would have no issue, I would however be concerned if it's
the former.<br><br>
Regards<br><br>
sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
On 1 Jul 2015 20:09, "Alan Greenberg"
<<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>
> wrote:
<dl>
<dd>AMEN!<br><br>
</dd><dd>Pur specification gave a range of sizes and used words like
"could". We did not specify that the Bylaws should prohibit
ever altering the composition of the Board should it be advisable. So it
will have all the flexibility it needs to adjust if the initial
implementation proves unworkable.<br>
</dd><dd>Alan<br>
<br>
</dd><dd>At 01/07/2015 12:38 PM, Martin Boyle wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<dd>Let's not reopen the Board size, Greg!
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>For issues directly involving the CEO as a person (and currently the
senior person in the IANA team is an ICANN employee), might this be
something left to ICANN and the PTI Board in negotiation with the post
holder?
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>From: Greg Shatan [
<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">
mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>]
</dd><dd>Sent: 01 July 2015 15:55
</dd><dd>To: Gomes, Chuck
</dd><dd>Cc: Martin Boyle; <a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [client com] PTI Board Composition:
IANA Managing Director
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>There are probably some ways to "fix" this issue, although
they may raise their own issues:
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>1. Increase the board to 7, with 4 (or 5) ICANN appointees (PTI
President + 3-4 ICANN employees) and 3 (or 2) independent
directors. This provides a clear majority even if the PTI President
recuses him/herself from a particular vote. This could re-open a
number of discussion points (mission creep based on size, composition,
etc.).
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>2. Establish a Compensation Committee to deal with the
President's compensation, consisting of the other 2 "ICANN
directors" and 1 independent director.
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>3. Establish a proxy or alternate system where another ICANN
(but not PTI) employee steps in to vote where the PTI President must step
away.
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>These are just off the top of my head, so take them for what they're
worth.
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>Greg
</dd><dd>
</dd><dd>On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Gomes, Chuck
<<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>>
wrote:
</dd><dd>Thanks Martin. I understand that this is common practice.
The reason this was more of a concern for me was that we are talking
about a very small board; one director out of five who may frequently
have conflicts is very different in my mind than one out of seven or nine
or more directors. That said, I recognize that most in the
CWG still support this approach and can live with that.<br>
</dd><dd>Chuck<br>
</dd><dd>-----Original Message-----
</dd><dd>From: Martin Boyle [
<a href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk" target="_blank">
mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk</a>]
</dd><dd>Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 4:24 AM
</dd><dd>To: Gomes, Chuck; <a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>Subject: RE: [CWG-Stewardship] [client com] PTI Board Composition:
IANA Managing Director<br>
</dd><dd>Sorry Chuck, I missed this direct question and I can't even blame
travelling.<br><br>
</dd><dd>Yes, I'm sure that there are other areas where the senior post (let's
call it a CEO for the moment) in PTI would need to recuse from voting,
not least on issues associated with their own position. I'm sure we
can find a list of areas where this would be good practice, but my point
is that it is quite usual for a CEO to be a member of the Board of their
company, subsidiary or otherwise, certainly in the UK. They should
*not* be Chair (considered bad practice).<br>
</dd><dd>In particular, for a Board whose sole responsibility has to be on
ensuring that the PTI is meeting its obligations, it would seem to me to
be completely unreasonable not to have the senior person in the company
executive on the Board.<br>
</dd><dd>Again apologies for (albeit accidentally) ignoring you.<br>
</dd><dd>Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
</dd><dd>-----Original Message-----
</dd><dd>From: Gomes, Chuck [
<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">
mailto:cgomes@verisign.com</a>]
</dd><dd>Sent: 15 June 2015 21:44
</dd><dd>To: Martin Boyle; <a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>Subject: RE: [CWG-Stewardship] [client com] PTI Board Composition:
IANA Managing Director<br>
</dd><dd>Martin,<br>
</dd><dd>Don't you think there would be other conflicts of interest besides
remuneration where the PTI person would have to recuse herself/himself
from voting, leaving only 4 members to vote?<br>
</dd><dd>Chuck<br>
</dd><dd>-----Original Message-----
</dd><dd>From:
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a> [
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Martin Boyle
</dd><dd>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:41 PM
</dd><dd>To: <a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [client com] PTI Board Composition:
IANA Managing Director<br>
</dd><dd>I'd see the term Managing Director in this case as the CEO role in
the PTI. Ex Officio because it is the most senior person in the
company and unlike other Board members, it is the post, not the
person. And as CEO/MD, sure, the person should certainly have a
vote except in things to do with their remuneration and bonus.<br>
</dd><dd>Martin<br>
<br>
</dd><dd>-----Original Message-----
</dd><dd>From:
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a> [
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
</dd><dd>Sent: 15 June 2015 21:19
</dd><dd>To:
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] [client com] PTI Board Composition:
IANA Managing Director<br>
</dd><dd>Hi,<br>
</dd><dd>A clarification, saying ex official means saying it is because of
another role held.<br>
</dd><dd>Do you also mean that this should be a non voting seat?
</dd><dd>I think you do, but want to make sure.<br>
</dd><dd>I would note that ICANN has a voting CEO on its Board.
</dd><dd>Does ISOC? How about the RIRs?
</dd><dd>Just curious.<br><br>
</dd><dd>avri<br>
</dd><dd>On 15-Jun-15 16:07, James Gannon wrote:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Greg,
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> With regards to questions 3, 4 and 6:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> As a matter of good governance practice I would have serious
concerns
</dd><dd>> about an employee of PTI sitting on the board of PTI with the
</dd><dd>> exception of the CEO ex officio.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> I would appreciate input from others but certainly in Ireland
and
</dd><dd>> France where I've sat on boards it's would not be considered an
</dd><dd>> acceptable practice. And I agree I haven't seen this issue
discussed
</dd><dd>> and any advice on best practice given to date.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> -James
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> *From:*<a href="mailto:cwg-client-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
cwg-client-bounces@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>> [
<a href="mailto:cwg-client-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
mailto:cwg-client-bounces@icann.org</a>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan
</dd><dd>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 8:15 PM
</dd><dd>> *To:*
<a href="mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">cwg-stewardship@icann.org</a>;
Client
</dd><dd>> *Subject:* [client com] PTI Board Composition: IANA Managing
Director
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> All:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> In the course of discussing the composition of the
"inside"
</dd><dd>> (controlled) PTI Board, I believe we have stated that three
seats
</dd><dd>> would be appointed by ICANN, with two being unspecified ICANN
</dd><dd>> employees and one being the "IANA Managing
Director." I've been asked
</dd><dd>> to clarify who this IANA Managing Director is (since this title
does
</dd><dd>> not currently exist). Specifically:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> 1. Will the IANA Managing Director be an employee of ICANN or of
PTI?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> 2. Is this intended to be the person in the role currently held
by
</dd><dd>> Elise Gerich (currently a VP of ICANN for IANA and Technical
</dd><dd>> Operations)?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> 3. If this person is an employee of PTI and not ICANN,
does that
</dd><dd>> still qualify for purposes of making it an inside board (keeping
in
</dd><dd>> mind that ICANN does not "own" PTI, and that the only
reason this
</dd><dd>> person is controlled by ICANN is because ICANN controls PTI
(which
</dd><dd>> creates a circularity of reasoning))?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> 4. Can this person be an employee of ICANN _and_ PTI (at
least so
</dd><dd>> that question 3 is resolved)?
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Some next level questions:
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> 5. Why are we calling this person a "Managing
Director," which is not
</dd><dd>> commonly used in US non-profit corporations to my
experience? (The
</dd><dd>> typical senior board-appointed offices are President, Vice
President,
</dd><dd>> Secretary and Treasurer. Managing Director seems to show
up primarily
</dd><dd>> in investment banks and other financial services entities.
If this
</dd><dd>> person is intended to be at the helm of PTI, we should use the
term
</dd><dd>> President.)
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> 6. How will the board handle matters related to this
person
</dd><dd>> (compensation, etc.)? If she recuses herself, there will only be
4
</dd><dd>> directors voting.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> I look forward to clarification and apologize if this is clear
</dd><dd>> somewhere and I missed it.
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> Greg
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>>
</dd><dd>> _______________________________________________
</dd><dd>> CWG-Stewardship mailing list
</dd><dd>>
<a href="mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org" target="_blank">CWG-Stewardship@icann.org</a>
</dd><dd>>
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https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>