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Hi Chris,<br>
<br>
you raise an excellent point.<br>
<br>
Do not forget Japanese personal names where one Kanji (chinese
character) combination can have any number of possible different
readings. There is a reason why there is special dictionaries for
possible name readings.<br>
<br>
One further common transliteration of longer vowels is with by
adding an "h" at the end, so Mr. Saitou could also spell himself as
either Saitô, Sait<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><span
style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125); " lang="EN-GB">ō or Saitoh. In Japan, I have seen all
kinds of different transliterations commonly used and mixed</span></span>.
There does not seem to be an "official" transliteration that is
commonly used or more correct than another.<br>
<br>
Just one example why I think that transliteration may be impossible
to do well, and that is just one language of many...<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:CEFAA72B.1A6F2%25julie.hedlund@icann.org"
type="cite"><br>
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BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span
style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> <Dillon>,
Chris <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:c.dillon@ucl.ac.uk">c.dillon@ucl.ac.uk</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday, January
14, 2014 7:15 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>
[gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Examples of addresses<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">Dear colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">I would like to start a collection of
international addresses on this list. Many will be in
non-Latin scripts, but some may be using the Latin
alphabet perhaps with lots of diacritics (accents) or
in some other way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">I hope the following Japanese example,
taken at random, makes this suggestion clear:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">The address is how it appears at the
bottom of the organization’s website,
</span><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic',
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.nii.ac.jp">www.nii.ac.jp</a>
:</span><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic',
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"
lang="JA">国立情報学研究所 テ</span><span style="font-family:
'Century Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
" lang="EN-GB">101-8430</span><span
style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"
lang="JA"> 東京都千代田区一ツ橋</span><span style="font-family:
'Century Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
" lang="EN-GB">2</span><span
style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"
lang="JA">－</span><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">1</span><span
style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"
lang="JA">－</span><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">On English pages of the same site, for
example,
</span><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic',
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nii.ac.jp/en">www.nii.ac.jp/en</a>
, it appears as:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">National
Institute for Informatics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2-1-2
Hitotsubashi, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-8430</span><span
style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">Notes<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">The name of this organization has a well
established English translation and acronym (NII). It
is not always clear whether an organization prefers
its long name or its acronym. Many/All of the
divisions and other parts of the organization also
have established English translations. What should the
policy be when an organization name has no established
English translation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">The rest of the address is transliterated
using some form of Hepburn Romanization. Strictly
speaking Tokyo should be Tōkyō. See here for further
information:
</span><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic',
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_romanization">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_romanization</a></span><span
style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">Japanese addresses are not normally
translated. I shall translate this address to
illustrate the point and for your amusement:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">2-1-2 One Bridge, Thousand Generations
Field Ward, East Capital Metropolis, 101-8430<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">Each speaker of Japanese would probably
produce a different rendering.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">It is interesting that the ku in
Chiyoda-ku is not usually translated as “ward”. Note
also the hyphen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">The order of the address is more or less
reversed. Literally in Hepburn it would be: Kokuritsu
Jōhō Kagaku Kenkyūjo 101-8430 Tōkyōto Chiyodaku
Hitotsubashi 2-1-2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">I have added spaces and capital letters.
</span><span style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D"
lang="ZH-CN">テ</span><span style="font-family:
'Century Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
" lang="EN-GB">comes before the Japanese postcode.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D" lang="ZH-CN">研
究所</span><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic',
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); " lang="EN-GB">
may be romanized as kenkyūjo or kenkyūsho. NII prefers
the former, but machine transliteration would produce
two possibilities if it did not know this specific
organization.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">There are some other Romanizations in
fairly common use in Japan e.g. Kunrei-siki and these
cause confusion. One may see, for example, Hitotubasi
instead of Hitotsubashi and frequently an address in
Hepburn may have a couple of spellings borrowed from
another system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">I am not aware of a Romanization that
officially spells out long ō vowels as in e.g. jōhō as
ou, but one sees this frequently e.g. jouhou. The
officially Hepburn way of doing it, if one has no
access to macrons is joohoo. One also sees jôhô
(borrowed from Kunrei-siki).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">I hope this will be a good way of
discovering current practice and issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "
lang="EN-GB">Chris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Century
Gothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Research
Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for
Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT
Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599)
ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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