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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Yoav,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This raises some interesting issues:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Is there a Romanization (=official transliteration) in common use for Hebrew? I happen to know there is for Yiddish as I’m doing some work with UCL’s Yiddish
Dept at the moment. That name would be Kheym, although individuals may transliterate it differently.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Is the Hebrew alphabet used with or without points in addresses, or do both things happen? (Yiddish has to use points; as letters like a and o are only distinct
if they have - or a little T under them.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Yoav Keren [mailto:yoav@dtnt.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 January 2014 23:19<br>
<b>To:</b> Dillon, Chris; Volker Greimann; gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Examples of addresses<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I totally agree with Volker. This is a big problem. Same thing happens in Hebrew. There are different ways people transliterate to other languages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A simple example is the name
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">חיים</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>, which can be
transliterated by people as Chaim or Haim (btw- it is also the word for "life").<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There are many other similar examples.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yoav<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:12.65pt"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:12.65pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yoav Keren
<br>
CEO <br>
Domain The Net Technologies Ltd. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:31.6pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">81 Sokolov st. Tel: +972-3-7600500<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:31.6pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Ramat Hasharon Fax: +972-3-7600505<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:31.6pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;letter-spacing:1.2pt">Israel 47238<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><img width="625" height="149" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CF11F7.1056EC00"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">mailto:owner-gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dillon, Chris<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 14, 2014 7:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Volker Greimann; <a href="mailto:gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Examples of addresses<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Volker,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I should have made up a contact person at NII! During my first part-time job in a Japanese department store there was a Mrs Nakashima upstairs and a Mrs Nakajima downstairs
– both written </span><span lang="JA" style="font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">中島</span><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">. The only sure way to know is to ask the person. This reminds me of
the name authority situation in a library, where in the past, libraries used to write to people and ask them what they were called if their names appeared in more than one form on title pages of their books. On the front of one book I wrote, the publisher
put Christopher Dillon. Admittedly I was born Christopher James Dillon. In the US I’m sometimes Chris J. Dillon or Christopher J. Dillon. Actually I’m Chris Dillon. The same would be true for readings like
</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D">研究所</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">as mentioned below. It is often kenkyūsho, but NII seems to use kenkyūjo.</span><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Saitoh is a lovely point. That is so common with all names ending in what should officially be –tō according to Hepburn.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There is an interesting distinction between an official Romanization such as Hepburn or Pinyin for Chinese and what one actually sees. I have a suspicion that there may
also be languages with no common standard Romanization. A challenge for us on this list to find them!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Volker Greimann [<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 January 2014 16:59<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>; Dillon, Chris<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Examples of addresses<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Chris,<br>
<br>
you raise an excellent point.<br>
<br>
Do not forget Japanese personal names where one Kanji (chinese character) combination can have any number of possible different readings. There is a reason why there is special dictionaries for possible name readings.<br>
<br>
One further common transliteration of longer vowels is with by adding an "h" at the end, so Mr. Saitou could also spell himself as either Saitô, Sait<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"">ō or Saitoh. In Japan, I have seen all
kinds of different transliterations commonly used and mixed</span>. There does not seem to be an "official" transliteration that is commonly used or more correct than another.<br>
<br>
Just one example why I think that transliteration may be impossible to do well, and that is just one language of many...<br>
<br>
Volker<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><Dillon>, Chris <<a href="mailto:c.dillon@ucl.ac.uk">c.dillon@ucl.ac.uk</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, January 14, 2014 7:15 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[gnso-contactinfo-pdp-wg] Examples of addresses<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear colleagues,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I would like to start a collection of international addresses on this list. Many will be in non-Latin scripts, but some may be using the Latin alphabet perhaps
with lots of diacritics (accents) or in some other way.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I hope the following Japanese example, taken at random, makes this suggestion clear:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The address is how it appears at the bottom of the organization’s website,
</span><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.nii.ac.jp">www.nii.ac.jp</a> :</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="JA" style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">国立情報学研究所 テ</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">101-8430</span><span lang="JA" style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA"> 東京都千代田区一ツ橋</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">2</span><span lang="JA" style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">－</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">1</span><span lang="JA" style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">－</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On English pages of the same site, for example,
</span><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.nii.ac.jp/en">www.nii.ac.jp/en</a> , it appears as:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">National Institute for Informatics</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">2-1-2 Hitotsubashi, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-8430</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Notes</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The name of this organization has a well established English translation and acronym (NII). It is not always clear whether an organization prefers its long
name or its acronym. Many/All of the divisions and other parts of the organization also have established English translations. What should the policy be when an organization name has no established English translation?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The rest of the address is transliterated using some form of Hepburn Romanization. Strictly speaking Tokyo should be Tōkyō. See here for further information:
</span><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_romanization">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_romanization</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Japanese addresses are not normally translated. I shall translate this address to illustrate the point and for your amusement:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">2-1-2 One Bridge, Thousand Generations Field Ward, East Capital Metropolis, 101-8430</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Each speaker of Japanese would probably produce a different rendering.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It is interesting that the ku in Chiyoda-ku is not usually translated as “ward”. Note also the hyphen.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The order of the address is more or less reversed. Literally in Hepburn it would be: Kokuritsu Jōhō Kagaku Kenkyūjo 101-8430 Tōkyōto Chiyodaku Hitotsubashi
2-1-2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have added spaces and capital letters.
</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D">テ</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">comes before the Japanese postcode.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:SimSun;color:#1F497D">研 究所</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">may be romanized as kenkyūjo or kenkyūsho. NII prefers the former, but machine transliteration would produce two possibilities if it did not know this specific organization.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There are some other Romanizations in fairly common use in Japan e.g. Kunrei-siki and these cause confusion. One may see, for example, Hitotubasi instead
of Hitotsubashi and frequently an address in Hepburn may have a couple of spellings borrowed from another system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I am not aware of a Romanization that officially spells out long ō vowels as in e.g. jōhō as ou, but one sees this frequently e.g. jouhou. The officially
Hepburn way of doing it, if one has no access to macrons is joohoo. One also sees jôhô (borrowed from Kunrei-siki).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I hope this will be a good way of discovering current practice and issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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