<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Farzaneh, Milton,</div><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Having given it some thought, I disagree with your conclusion that whois is not an essential tool for fighting spam, based on the Recorded Future study you reference.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why? First, the Cisco Talos data which underpins the study is a measure of detected spam. If spam detection rates have dropped, we don’t know if that is because there’s proportionally less spam, or that it’s harder to classify.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Secondly, the anti-spam work done ‘behind the scenes’ - of analysing whois data, finding correlations, and dismantling the spamming infrastructure - is done by hand, by humans. As such, any consequences of the loss of whois access to researchers won’t be immediate.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And then there’s the blog post itself. My SSAC colleague John Levine explains the flaws better than I can:</div><div class=""><a href="https://www.circleid.com/posts/20180905_gdpr_didnt_affect_spam_not_so_fast/" class="">https://www.circleid.com/posts/20180905_gdpr_didnt_affect_spam_not_so_fast/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It’s quite possible that we’ll discover that in reducing ready access to PII for criminals, GDPR has been a net positive in fighting spam. It’s also possible that carefully controlled access to RDDS data will <u class="">also</u> act as a net positive, by continuing to enable researchers to fight on behalf of users.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The problem is that - like Zhou Enlai was supposed to have said of the effects of the French Revolution - it’s just too soon to say!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Yours,</div><div class="">Benedict.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 31 Aug 2018, at 19:27, farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" class="">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This study supports the argument that WHOIS might not be an essential tool for fighting spam and the world did not see a massive spam apocalypse as it was said it will (it is "a" tool but not essential and most probably replaceable even). Yes it is a short time frame and might not be complete but it is at least based on some data. If there are other studies that provide data that can support the argument that WHOIS is an essential tool for fighting spam (other than all the statements and individual cases) and as a result of compliance with GDPR and redacted personal data of domain name registrants there is an increase in spam, then we can look into them. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I would also like to note that domain name hijacking has decreased according to some registrars as a result of redacted personal info in WHOIS (as was said during our call a couple of weeks ago). Domain name hijacking is an issue domain name registrants especially in developing countries had to deal with for long with almost no recourse nor remedy. They did not have the resources and the knowledge of using UDRP or lodge transfer complaint to get their domain names back.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Privacy in WHOIS might even be good for cybersecurity and protecting trademarks. Why don't we look at it this way too. Not implying that we should not address all other issues that can be raised because of redacted personal information from WHOIS, just saying WHOIS is not that dark because of protection of privacy of domain name registrants.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> </div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="m_-4154567605490474077gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class="">Farzaneh </font></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="">On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 11:59 AM Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class="">Dear All,<div class="">I am not sure that such study was done fir the whole words or based on some limited area .I do not believe that one could take any conclusion on that</div><div class="">Regards</div><div class="">Kavouss<br class=""><br class=""><div id="m_-4154567605490474077m_-9206894814721586973AppleMailSignature" class="">Sent from my iPhone</div><div class=""><br class="">On 31 Aug 2018, at 17:12, Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" target="_blank" class="">milton@gatech.edu</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">
<div class="m_-4154567605490474077m_-9206894814721586973WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Relevant to the work of this group is the following study from Recorded Future.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.recordedfuture.com/gdpr-spam-impact/?utm_content=76363539&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter" target="_blank" class="">https://www.recordedfuture.com/gdpr-spam-impact/?utm_content=76363539&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter</a>
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Entitled “90 Days of GDPR: Minimal Impact on Spam and Domain Registration”<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Dr. Milton Mueller<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Professor, School of Public Policy<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Georgia Institute of Technology<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.internetgovernance.org/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class=""><image001.jpg></span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
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