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    <p>Hi all,<br>
    </p>
    <p>ccTLDs and gTLDs cannot be viewed as the same as they are subject
      to different regulatory regimes and fall under different models of
      registration.</p>
    <p>For example, in many of the listed ccTLDs, the registrant is
      assumed to have a direct contractual relationship with the
      registry, so the ability to collect and process data is different
      for such registries compared to gTLD registries that have no such
      relationship. <br>
    </p>
    <p>While the topics you raise are important and worth further
      deliberation, I would propose that these be postponed until after
      the ePDP concludes and be included in subsequent, proper policy
      work as they are highly contentious issues and focussing on these
      now has the potential to derail or at least significantly delay
      our output. As we are on a strict timeline, we should focus on the
      uncontentious issues first to ensure the Temp Spec can be replaced
      in time. <br>
    </p>
    <p>The distinction between legal and natural personas is a red
      herring as it does not solve any of the issues. Any data provided
      by legal persons may still contain personal data of natural
      persons in many of the fields that would be near impossible to
      detect for contracted parties. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Further, even if such a distinction were to be found to provide
      additional benefits,  making such a distinction may perhaps be
      possible for new registrations going forward, but it is definitely
      near impossible with regard to already existing registrations as
      it would require receiving a whois update from all current
      registrants. Given the high amount of reluctance in parts of the
      community to accept any form of grandfathering or dual system as I
      have experienced in the Whois RT2 deliberations, such a dual
      system where domain names would be treated different based on
      their registration gate, I cannot in good conscience support this
      as a way forward either. <br>
    </p>
    <p>But I also have significant doubts that contracted parties could
      even rely on such self-declarations of our customers without
      facing additional liabilities for public disclosure. <br>
    </p>
    <p>As far as accuracy "verification" goes (which in many cases is
      closer to the validation requirements currently included in the
      RAA), this is an issue relegated entirely to the contracts of the
      contracted parties. Work on this issue is currently ongoing
      between ICANN and registrars. Opening this issue up here would
      create a double track and be in violation of the process currently
      included in the contracts. Many of the ccTLDs also do not face the
      same issue that most gTLDs face in that they do not aspire to a
      global registrant base and can perform their
      validation/verification on a national level, which naturally
      reduces costs and provides better results. As soon as
      international registrations enter into the picture, the accuracy
      of these verification sources drops to unacceptable percentages.
      As one example, when Nominet introduced their verification scheme,
      the numbers of "failed verifications" for registrations of
      registrants outside the UK were horrendous, and Nominet was quick
      to treat such registrations with much more leeway than those
      inside the UK. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Additionally, in our experience higher requirements on data
      accuracy usually lead to more incidents of identity theft since
      abusers of the system will always find ways around. Just because a
      data set is accurate that does not mean it actually belongs to the
      registrant. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Geographic distinction assumes that it is feasible for contracted
      parties to differentiate accurately for each data set they receive
      which data protection standards apply to that set. That
      determination cannot simply be made based on the country code
      provided by the registrant however. Further, for many registrars
      that process their data in other jurisdictions, that distinction
      is pointless. It also places a significant burden on contracted
      parties that would have to implement and operate multiple systems
      of whois.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Data access: Just so we do not resort to cherry picking, we
      should also look at how these registries handle requests for data
      access. These registries provide access based on law enforcement,
      parties identified in a court order and someone with legitimate
      interest. In case of the latter, the legal department makes the
      judgement on that. This is exactly what is already in the Temp
      Spec, where the registrar makes the judgement regarding the
      purported legitimate interest and informs the requester
      accordingly. <br>
    </p>
    <p>Best,</p>
    <p>Volker</p>
    <p>RrSG Alternate<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 16.10.2018 um 00:29 schrieb Margie
      Milam:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks
            Georgios for sharing this document.  This is really great
            information, and can help with several issues for the EPDP,
            including:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Legal/Natural
              person distinction<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Geographic
              distinction<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Accuracy
              <o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></li>
        </ul>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We
            would like to propose that Staff  invite someone from Centr
            who can talk to us at Barcelona about these issues, to help
            inform our policy recommendations.   We would also like to
            ensure that all of the issues that were “parked” at our F2F
            meeting are considered as part of our deliberations in
            Barcelona.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Margie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span
              style="color:black">Gnso-epdp-team <a
                class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org"><gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org></a>
              on behalf of <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:Georgios.TSELENTIS@ec.europa.eu">"Georgios.TSELENTIS@ec.europa.eu"</a>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:Georgios.TSELENTIS@ec.europa.eu"><Georgios.TSELENTIS@ec.europa.eu></a><br>
              <b>Date: </b>Friday, October 12, 2018 at 1:33 AM<br>
              <b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com">"kurt@kjpritz.com"</a> <a
                class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com"><kurt@kjpritz.com></a>,
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">"gnso-epdp-team@icann.org"</a>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org"><gnso-epdp-team@icann.org></a><br>
              <b>Subject: </b>[Gnso-epdp-team] CENTR Survey: Whois
              status and impacts from GDPR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dear
            Kurt, EPDP colleagues,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please
            find a recent survey among European ccTLDs on impacts from
            GDPR:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
            survey report can be found here: <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__centr.org_library_library_survey-2Dreport_centr-2Dreport-2Dwhois-2Dstatus-2Dand-2Dimpacts-2Dfrom-2Dgdpr.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=_4XWSt8rUHZPiRG6CoP4Fnk_CCk4p550lffeMi3E1z8&m=Ejr1s_swhOOMZ6A6MK3kgcxX6M2N-iDRXSbdeBz88Uw&s=T4R_SFZkRFdOpZ15H9XgTW4ZlbBvQTBqJgwmkYtvT3E&e="
              moz-do-not-send="true">
https://centr.org/library/library/survey-report/centr-report-whois-status-and-impacts-from-gdpr.html</a>
          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
            presentation has been uploaded at: <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__centr.org_library_library_external-2Devent_whois-2Dstatus-2Dand-2Dthe-2Dimpact-2Dof-2Dgdpr.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=_4XWSt8rUHZPiRG6CoP4Fnk_CCk4p550lffeMi3E1z8&m=Ejr1s_swhOOMZ6A6MK3kgcxX6M2N-iDRXSbdeBz88Uw&s=Ul6EQT0lYlA4EMiD0i0hCdqJvk2hj0enVaKnc05XP2w&e="
              moz-do-not-send="true">
https://centr.org/library/library/external-event/whois-status-and-the-impact-of-gdpr.html</a>
          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
            overview of data collected and published via the WHOIS is
            available at: <a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__stats.centr.org_pub-5Fwhois&d=DwMGaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=_4XWSt8rUHZPiRG6CoP4Fnk_CCk4p550lffeMi3E1z8&m=Ejr1s_swhOOMZ6A6MK3kgcxX6M2N-iDRXSbdeBz88Uw&s=GgicT8PChIKhcba_NAzGpxR4ZU1EINwS6_vooi-iNBk&e="
              moz-do-not-send="true"> https://stats.centr.org/pub_whois</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best
             regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Georgios</span><o:p></o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Volker A. Greimann
General Counsel and Policy Manager
KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH

T: +49 6894 9396901
F: +49 6894 9396851
W: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a>

Key-systems is a company registered in Germany with Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken: CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registered Offices: Im Oberen Werk 1, DE-66386 St. Ingbert, Germany

Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. </pre>
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