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<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Benedict, Diane, Margie, et al.,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I genuinely appreciate the time, energy and effort everyone has put into this subject…there’s documents and updates flying around left and right, so taking the time out to put something together isn’t a trivial task.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Having said that, the RrSG representatives are growing increasingly frustrated by the fact our myriad objections (with plenty of justification) to this being included as a recommendation continue to be ignored. I’d refer everyone back to
 the e-mail James sent I believe it was last week. We have been consistent in our position on this.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Not only do we not feel it’s required under the GDPR, we have repeatedly talked about this group’s desire to draft policy that is NOT solely GDPR specific but a global policy that can satisfy the multitude of privacy regulations we know
 exist around the world. Also, it’s not clear to me how we went from proposing further research on the topic to a full-blown policy recommendation to require it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We continue to go round and round on this subject with no real end in sight. If the initial report of this group includes this as a recommendation, the RrSG would like our
<b>strong</b> objection noted in the report. Additionally (and to be completely transparent), public comments submitted by the RrSG to the initial report will continue to provide objection. We have also been clear that the RrSG GNSO reps could not support any
 policy recommendation that made this mandatory for registrars to implement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is a subject I just don’t see us reaching consensus on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Again, appreciate that everyone is coming from a good place with their input, but this subject really does present a real risk of derailing all of our hard work to date. I don’t believe that’s in anyone’s best interest.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matt <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Alan Woods <alan@donuts.email><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, November 15, 2018 at 4:20 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca><br>
<b>Cc: </b>GNSO EPDP <gnso-epdp-team@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Legal vs Natural and Redactions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Benedict,  <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your proposal, and I'm always happy to see efforts to view the stated concerns, not as the simply concerns of a 'grouping' in the ePDP, but as concerns of actual compliance with the law, and the efforts that must be made in
 order to overcome specific legal barriers.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I must, however agree with Stephanie and Lindsay on this and I again must reference my ask of leadership in my previous email, and again request that those who provide recommendations, must dig deeper and also address many of the issues
 we have. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">To conclude, I welcome the attempts, but again this process fails to address the immediate concerns that 1) the CPs have noted that we do not believe we have the systems or ability to make a proper delineation.  2) it does not address the
 concerns under Art 32 of enhanced likelihood of breach in delineation under the current system. It remains my opinion that the concerns of the CPs have yet been outweighed by any suggested path. The path of compliance, with the minimal impact to the Data Subjects
 and to the CPs to whom implementation rests, is wilt confirmation of the Temp spec, with some cosmetic drafting tweaks, time permitting,. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have gone through my own reactions to your proposal below, but this is meat as an illustration, and is extraneous to my above conclusion.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Alan <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">1. Introduction of policy requiring registrant to make a legal / natural person declaration.</span></span><br>
<br>
<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">This is not necessary to confirm the Temp Spec, especially where the Temp Spec allows compliance (which we argue is actually minimum compliance, considering the systems </span></span><span style="color:red">available,
 the state of the art, the nature of the data, and the likely impact to the data subject). All of which are concerns that are not addressed by the proposal. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red"><br>
Regarding SCOPE: I had thought that we, as a group, had stated, and supported Thomas Rickert's helpful suggestion, that should we get an indication from the EDPB that self declaration is sufficient to allow us to escape liability for a data breach, then we
 would be happy to pursue this. <br>
<br>
regardless however, What you are asking for is another policy development, which is not actually in scope for OUR policy creation; (to Brian's point the gating questions do not indicate we must consider the questions, true, but they certainly do not bind us
 to creating that policy. I alwayswould haveassumed this is in furtherance of our second "power", i.e. to make recommendations to the GNSO for future policy development.  [note: that the form of self declaration itself is probably the bulk of a policy effort
 on this and we have little precious time to waste in the ePDP to even consider what form this may take]. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">2. Declaration would be mandatory for registrars to implement within a reasonable time.</span></span><br>
<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">As per 1, this is a conclusion of another PDP, not ours. </span></span><br>
<br>
<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">3. No obligation for registrars to verify accuracy of declaration.</span></span><span style="color:#500050"><br>
</span><span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">Except of course as per our legal obligations under the GDPR. In particular, Art 25 and Art 32. If a policy seemingly absolves the CPs from liability for not trying to ensure, to some level of reasonable
 certainty, that the declaration is vaild, this is hardly Privacy by Design or Privacy by Default- Let's be blunt here, what you are talking about is Privacy by Assumption and I cannot support that.</span></span><br>
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4. A declaration would only be required during â€˜contact' with registrant, ie on registration, renewal, and transfer (by gaining registrar).<br>
<span style="color:red">Again the form of such a policy is a matter for another PDP.</span> <br>
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5. Registrar may make declaration on behalf of registrant if it has reasonable knowledge of registrant’s status.<br>
<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">No. A registrar should be wholly resistant to any suggestion that they can 'consent' on behalf of any registrant (natural or legal). it's not scalable, it's not realistic and likely illegal. But I digress as this
 is a conversation for another PDP. </span></span><br>
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<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">6. Registrant may change their declaration at any time.</span></span><span style="color:#500050"><br>
</span><span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">Unless, of course, the </span></span><span style="color:red">Registrar disagrees with this as per 5, yes? I wonder how this tallies with Art 17 requests for those 'opt-in' persons, who have had their personal
 data published. How are the CPs to reverse this process, nothing the tendency of some to scrape and resell this data? Where are our controls against misuse of the data? This is exactly what the EDPB meant when they talk about 'not publishing to the world at
 large'. once the genie is out of the bottle, we will find it very hard to squish it back in. Again another point to be considered in the other PDP, with the luxury of time and without the unrealistic expectations of immediate implementation heaped upon it. 
 I would also hazard a guess that there will be some Art 32 security issues regarding the lack of controls, and our continued inability to ensure inadvertent breaches occur. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">7. Fail safe: the absence of a declaration results in assumption that the registrant is a natural person; i.e. default redaction of data.</span></span><span style="color:#500050"><br>
</span><span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">Again unless the Registrar disagrees (apologies, i'm being flippant but clearly I think 5 is not really a winner). I can see this is considering privacy by default, however where this concept runs into issues
 is with the process and procedure (i.e. the Design)  that renders such a default as merely lip service. If the situation of 'default' privacy can be altered in a manner that does not fully vindicate the privacy rights of the individual, then the Art 25 tests
 will fail. But again, this is not a concern for our PDP, but certainly perhaps when making a recommendation for PDP on this, we can warn of the pitfalls. </span></span><span style="color:red"><br>
</span><br>
<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">8. No obligation to obtain retroactive declarations. (The average domain lifespan is 1.4 years so adoption will happen naturally.)</span></span><span style="color:#500050"><br>
</span><span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">Not for us to decide, but I do feel this would be pragmatic. </span></span><br>
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<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">9. "edge case" legal persons - for example those trading from home (like me!) or in certain protected categories (as suggested by Stephanie) - may additionally declare that the registration data contained personal
 or sensitive information, so that it may be redacted.</span></span><span style="color:#500050"><br>
</span><span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">To clarify, is this an option to withdraw an assumed consent? This again would give me concern as to Art 25 and consent; if the system is designed to support privacy by both default and design, why would
 you need to also make a positive obligation to act in a certain manner, for those who wish to preserve their privacy. Surely </span></span><span style="color:red">designing <span class="gmail-im">a system which requires a person to perform additional actions
 to vindicate their 'default' right is not Privacy by either default or design. Also, we are </span>likely <span class="gmail-im">encroaching on the realm of Data Subject Rights here (rectification, deletion, and objection) here, again all these should be </span>available <span class="gmail-im">by
 default, not wrapped in  policy as if we are somehow bestowing them upon a DS as an optional path. 
</span><br>
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<span class="gmail-im">Also let's be clear, there is, as far as I can see, zero reasons for any processing of sensitive information. Disclosure of, for example, medical status, race, </span>ethnicity, political opinion or sexuality etc. such things should never
 be ICANN requirements for the registration. Perhaps a (arguably foolhardy) Registry may think this is a good idea and own such a controllership of such a disclosure .... but that's up to them.  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:#500050">10. False declarations will be subject to the normal whois inaccuracy complaint process.</span></span><br>
<span class="gmail-im"><span style="color:red">I would hardly call this the "Normal" process; surely new process is necessary, designed and created to take into account that we are not merely talking about the registry/regsitrar's opinion as to accuracy but
 as to our disagreement with the data and 'consent' or lack thereof of a presumed or not presumed data subject (which is based on the declaration of that 'data subject') . Is the suggestion here that we can design a system whereby we are allowed to </span></span><span style="color:red">second-guess
 or overrule someones wishes to not have personal data published, because it is associated with a company?   A bit of a minefield, but again thankfully this is something that should be reserved for another PDP and not us</span><span style="color:#500050">. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Alan Woods</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Senior Compliance & Policy Manager, Donuts Inc.</span>
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<span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">The Victorians, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">15-18 Earlsfort Terrace<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 12:33 AM Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">Excellent question Brian!  My first suggestion on improved language would be that these questions (h3-5)  are not in the right order.  As we have demonstrated during our discussions, we
 have different interpretations of what h4  means.  My Interpretation is not,  "does the GDPR regulate the data of legal person?"  It is, "does a legal basis exist in the registration data currently collected globally to satisfy current RDS  contractual obligations/"
 (because we really do not have a valid RDS policy).  Legal basis means in this situation, how can we know whether data submitted by a registrant pertains to a legal or natural person?  the short answer is we can't, so we do not in fact have a legal basis to
 make the determination.  so h4 = no.  H3 would then logically follow, and the short answer to that one is No.  H3 is a messy question combining two very separate ideas....should registrars be forced to determine, reliably as required by the privacy protections
 in the GDPR for natural persons, which is one question.....and then the second part of the question (which by the way assumes a negative answer to the first, in my view....) WHat mechanism would need to be established in order to reliably determine whether
 registrant data entered pertains to a legal person, or an individual, and if the latter, what consent or other mechanism needs to be implemented in order to mitigate risk?  SO in my view BEnedict has provided a proposal as to how to answer that last half of
 h3, but in my view the answer to the first half is no.  So out of scope.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">Now turning to h5, which arguably should come before the second half of h3 because it seeks to enumerate the risks, that the mechanism defined in the latter half of h3 must provide (i.e.
 lets hear the risks before we elaborate the cure).  Now, in my view there are several risks, which I have brought up from time to time, also pointing out the fulsome discussion we had on this topic in the PPSAI working group.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">I can enumerate those risks again if you like, but I think the answer to the first two questions is no so the elaboration of a new policy and new mechanism should be left to whenever we
 get the temp spec ratified or altered.  We are, as Cherine Chalaby points out in his letter to Drazek, running out of time......</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande",sans-serif">cheers Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2018-11-14 17:58, King, Brian wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi Stephanie,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I can clarify that this is in scope as we’re answering these charter questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">h3) Should Contracted Parties be allowed or required to treat legal and natural persons differently, and what mechanism is needed to ensure reliable determination of status?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">h4) Is there a legal basis for Contracted Parties to treat legal and natural persons differently?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">h5) What are the risks associated with differentiation of registrant status as legal or natural persons across multiple jurisdictions? (See EDPB letter of 5 July 2018).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I would appreciate any suggestions you might have on ways to improve the proposed language?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Per Diane’s note, IPC supports as we think it is a reasonable approach that could garner consensus.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Brian J. King</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:gray">Director of Internet Policy & Industry Affairs</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#365F91">MarkMonitor
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#505050">/ </span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#FF9100">Part of Clarivate Analytics
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Phone: +1 (443) 761-3726</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:brian.king@markmonitor.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">brian.king@markmonitor.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Gnso-epdp-team
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephanie Perrin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 14, 2018 5:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Legal vs Natural and Redactions<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Given that Cherine Chalaby has just written to Keith Drazek (GNSO Council Chair) to express worry over whether we are going to finish this thing on time, perhaps we ought to stick to what is within scope.  It is not clear to me how a new policy requiring
 that a distinction be made between legal and natural persons is within scope.  <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p>Further to this general remark, I do not see any way a registrar or registry can evade responsibility for "accidently"  collecting personal information.  Consent has to be meaningful and informed.  On accuracy....read the RDS reveiw Team II report which
 is doubling down on accuracy.  I would certainly not sign on to this one, if I were a registrar.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It's a good try though!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>STephanie Perrin<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 2018-11-14 16:06, Benedict Addis wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear Alan, Hadia,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I’ve discussed this with SSAC colleagues, and propose the following compromise:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">1. Introduction of policy requiring registrant to make a legal / natural person declaration.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2. Declaration would be mandatory for registrars to implement within a reasonable time.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3. No obligation for registrars to verify accuracy of declaration.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">4. A declaration would only be required during ‘contact' with registrant, ie on registration, renewal, and transfer (by gaining registrar).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">5. Registrar may make declaration on behalf of registrant if it has reasonable knowledge of registrant’s status.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">6. Registrant may change their declaration at any time.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">7. Fail safe: the absence of a declaration results in assumption that the registrant is a natural person; i.e. default redaction of data.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">8. No obligation to obtain retroactive declarations. (The average domain lifespan is 1.4 years so adoption will happen naturally.)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">9. "edge case" legal persons - for example those trading from home (like me!) or in certain protected categories (as suggested by Stephanie) - may additionally declare that the
 registration data contained personal or sensitive information, so that it may be redacted.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">10. False declarations will be subject to the normal whois inaccuracy complaint process.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If the team thinks this proposal has merit, there may be an opportunity to run it past the EDPB for approval. Your thoughts welcome!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Benedict.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 14 Nov 2018, at 18:11, Alan Woods <<a href="mailto:alan@donuts.email" target="_blank">alan@donuts.email</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Dear Team,  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Thank you, Hadia and Alan for your statements. As the Ry reps (supported by the registrars)
 have already explained we believe the mandatory policy is unsuitable noting our assessment as to the reasons grounding that position. I believe it would be beneficial to the team, if the ALAC could similarly provide us with your grounding reasoning as to why
 you believe such a mandatory policy is appropriate, given the risks we have already noted to both the Data Subject AND, the CPs, both of whom will be impacted to the greatest extent by such a recommendation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">To leadership Team:
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">I think at this point, given the relatively small time left remaining in this process,
 that we need to set clear expectations for the provision of any such SO/AC/SG/C ‘recommendations’. At a minimum we should be insisting that SO/AC/SG/Cs who wish to make any recommendations must also provide their assessment/reasoning for such a conclusion,
 capable of grounding any such recommendation; more so specifically in cases such as this, where such views are at complete odds with strongly stated concerns and reservations of another SO/AC/SG/C already on record, of which they are reasonably aware of at
 the time of submission.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Using this recommendation as an example, and my apologies, this is not aimed specifically
 at ALAC, but it is the example to hand. I’m fully sure that Hadia and Alan have not come to this conclusion lightly.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">That being said, if I may illustrate the point however by highlighting why grounding
 reasons are so vital in this particular recommendation. In my consideration of the proposal I would pose the following questions which immediately spring to mind.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></b> <o:p>
</o:p></li></ul>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo2;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">WHY</span></b>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo2;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">is minimum mandatory policy considered suitable, given the concerns raised? What factors were considered that seem to outweigh such concerns?</span></b>
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></b> <o:p>
</o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></b> <o:p>
</o:p></li></ul>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span> <o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo5;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">Given</span></b>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo5;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">the representations on record as to the inability to implement a mandatory policy, how is the recommendation made compatible with Art 25 of the GDPR?</span></b>
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#222222;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l11 level1 lfo6;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></b> <o:p>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">Given</span></b>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">that representations on record as to concerns regarding the security of personal data, should a mandatory policy be implemented?</span></b>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></b> <o:p>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></b> <o:p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">At</span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">the very least, any such recommendation must be accompanied by an assessment under Art 32?</span>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white"> </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white"> </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Art</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"> 32 (2) requires an assessment as to security and the preventive methods against breaches be undertaken. The ePDP recommendation must ultimately also include
 such an assessment, therefore for clarity, any party who makes such a recommendation, should also provide</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"> a grounding assessment as to such a recommendation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Again</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"> this assessment
<b>must</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"> take into account matters such as risk of breach, with due deference to the helpful headings as provided by Art 32 (1). It must also provide acceptable answers
 or at least provide reasons for dismissing to concerns raised.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">So</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"> given the strongly stated concerns the CPs have raised regarding the likelihood of a higher risk of breach of data, were a mandatory policy to be imposed, it
 is incumbent on those suggesting to disregard such a concern, to provide their reasoning for such</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in;background:white;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"> a decision.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">·</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#222222">        </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#222222">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">I appreciate we all have viewpoints (strong ones) on this, but without providing a reasoned supported
 argument for a certain recommendation to the group, we cannot possibly fairly assess such a recommendation.
<span style="background:white">I must therefore urge and request leadership to be insistent going forward, that any such recommendations made by any SO/AC/SG/C (Registries included of course) MUST be accompanied by a full statement of the reasons grounding
 the recommendation, including, as we are talking about data subject rights, an assessment as to the impact the proposed policy recommendation may have on the privacy rights of the individual, or indeed on the ability of the CPs to implement.
</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Kind regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">Alan Woods
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Depdp-2Dteam&d=DwMGaQ&c=OGmtg_3SI10Cogwk-ShFiw&r=qQNCXqU_XE2XIdXbawYmk-YDflYH6pd8ffXlzxU37OA&m=rolD3tX41Ai1EOS1JrRTv6L5OrwvVrZf3YfALTFtIDM&s=TdWPeOiRPzppZQoG9VYYGMWfhTzc7SfWOq9dN8wJBp4&e=" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Gnso-epdp-team mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Depdp-2Dteam&d=DwMGaQ&c=OGmtg_3SI10Cogwk-ShFiw&r=qQNCXqU_XE2XIdXbawYmk-YDflYH6pd8ffXlzxU37OA&m=rolD3tX41Ai1EOS1JrRTv6L5OrwvVrZf3YfALTFtIDM&s=TdWPeOiRPzppZQoG9VYYGMWfhTzc7SfWOq9dN8wJBp4&e=" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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