<html><head></head><body>Agree with Ayden. Just because it has been common practice to use gTLD registration data in this manner for the many years during which it was publicly published, doesn’t mean that this is in any way within the scope of ICANN’s mission. <div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Thanks.</div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Amr<br class=""/><div><br class=""/><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 11, 2019, at 3:41 PM, Ayden Férdeline <<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" class="">icann@ferdeline.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"/><div class=""><div class="">But ICANN is not a global consumer protection agency. Whois and the RDS is not a substitute, replacement, or proxy for the work of governments in protecting consumers. As you note Greg, governments can and already do mandate what data must be made available on the websites of entities selling goods or offering services to the general public. Governments can and do educate consumers to deal only with entities they know online and that have complied with the legal requirements of disclosure and presentation within their jurisdiction. It is far outside the scope and mission of ICANN to take on this responsibility too; any use cases not strictly associated with ICANN's mission must, in my view, be thrown out.<br class=""/></div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Ayden Férdeline <br class=""/></div><div class="protonmail_signature_block"><div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br class=""/></div></div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐<br class=""/></div><div class=""> On Thursday, 11 July 2019 15:25, Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com" class="">greg@illumintel.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""/></div><div class=""> <br class=""/></div><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div class=""><p class="">Volker, checking the details on the Web site is easier in your country, Germany. There the Telemedia Act requires that a web site owner post a great deal of information that allows a consumer to identify the provider. That includes address, details about the entity’s authorized representative (often the name of a legal person), telephone number and/or email address, details about shares and nominal capital, the company registration number, VAT number, and more. It’s required even if services are offered not in return for payment but if advertisements are used to generate income.<br class=""/></p><p class=""> <br class=""/></p><p class="">But that’s not the law in most of the world, which have no such requirement.<br class=""/></p><p class=""> <br class=""/></p><p class="">The German law seems like a reminder that those engaged in commercial activity are not entitled to anonymity under GDPR.<br class=""/></p><p class=""> <br class=""/></p><p class="">Best,<br class=""/></p><p class="">--Greg<br class=""/></p><p class=""> <br class=""/></p><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"/></div><div class=""><b class="">From:</b> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org" class="">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>> <b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br class=""/></div><div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:29 AM<br class=""/></div><div class=""><b class="">To:</b> Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <<a href="mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg" class="">Hadia@tra.gov.eg</a>><br class=""/></div><div class=""><b class="">Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" class="">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br class=""/></div><div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] ALAC Use Cases - Consumer Protection<br class=""/></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"/></div><p class=""> <br class=""/></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Case 2 seems to be a bit far fetched and based on a discussion that has been done to death in various fora and WGs on ICANN previously. Do we really want to continue beating this dead horse? If a user wants to verify a site he wants to do business with, he can check the information on that site or in the SSL Certificate. If neither are present, that should tell any sensible user enough. There is absolutely no need for whois access for this purpose.<br class=""/></p></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""/></p></div><div class=""><p class="">Case 1 seems to refer to a case that is better handled by LEAs.<br class=""/></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"/></div><div class="">-- <br class=""/></div><div class="">Volker A. Greimann<br class=""/></div><div class="">General Counsel and Policy Manager<br class=""/></div><div class=""><b class="">KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH</b><br class=""/></div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">T: +49 6894 9396901<br class=""/></div><div class="">M: +49 6894 9396851<br class=""/></div><div class="">F: +49 6894 9396851<br class=""/></div><div class="">W: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.key-systems.net/" class=""><span style="color:rgb(17, 85, 204)" class="">www.key-systems.net</span></a><br class=""/></div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835<br class=""/></div><div class="">CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br class=""/></div><div class=""><br class=""/></div><div class="">Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.<br class=""/></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"/></div></div></div></div><p class=""> <br class=""/></p></div></div><div class=""><p class=""> <br class=""/></p><table style="border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt" cellpadding="0" border="1" class=""><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="55" class=""><p class=""><a target="_blank" href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><img alt="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" style="width:.4791in;height:.302in" class="proton-embedded" width="46" height="29" border="0"/></span></a><br class=""/></p></td><td style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt" width="470" class=""><p style="line-height:13.5pt" class=""><span style="color:rgb(65, 66, 78)" class=""><span style="font-family:"Arial", sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:10pt" class="">Virus-free. <a target="_blank" href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" class=""><span style="color:rgb(68, 83, 234)" class="">www.avast.com</span></a></span></span></span><br class=""/></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p class=""> <br class=""/></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:26 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <<a href="mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg" class="">Hadia@tra.gov.eg</a>> wrote:<br class=""/></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="">Dear Team,<br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""> <br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="">Please find attached two use cases in relation to consumer protection. Apologies for being late and for any inconvenience this may cause.<br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""> <br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="">Best<br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="">Hadia<br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""> <br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""> <br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""> <br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="">Eng. Hadia Elminiawi (M.Sc.)<br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="">Director, DNS-Entrepreneurship Center<br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class=""><span id="cid:image001.jpg@01D537CF.C0A897D0"><image001.jpg></span></span><span id="cid:image002.png@01D537CF.C0A897D0"><image002.png></span><br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""> <br class=""/></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class=""> <br class=""/></p></div></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"/></div><div class="">_______________________________________________<br class=""/></div><div class="">Gnso-epdp-team mailing list<br class=""/></div><div class=""><a target="_blank" href="mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" class="">Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br class=""/></div><div class=""><a target="_blank" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team</a><br class=""/></div><div class="">_______________________________________________<br class=""/></div><div class="">By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a target="_blank" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" class="">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a target="_blank" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" class="">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.<br class=""/></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"/></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""/></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""/></div></body></html>