<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Greg, <br></div><div>I agree and isn't that (putting contact information on the website) a great model for websites actively engaging in commerce? The German law is based on EU regulations so the basic premise applies in all of Europe. Just because other countries do not have such a legal requirement also does not prohibit website operators from putting up that information voluntarily. <br></div><div>Putting that information on the website rather than a service half the internet knows nothing about also seems to be the more sensible solution.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe it is time for a grand information campaign for the rest of the world: "Don't buy from unknown operators! Only trust websites with contact information!"</div><div><br></div><div>And no, your premise is incorrect: Commercial actors are also entitled to the same level of protection under the GDPR. It is just that a seperate legal requirement exists to put certain information in a certain place. But that requirement does not affect non-EU operators, who remain entitled to the same protections under the GDPR as non-commercial operators are.</div><div><br></div><div>I would also advise against going down the well-travelled path of "commercial vs non-commercial domains" again. We will just waste a lot of time and will likely come down along the same results that the GNSO community has come down on again and again and again: "Let's not!"</div><div>Domain names by their nature are in and of themselves neither commercial nor non-commercial. It is the websites and other uses that can make them either, but that status may change depending on use, jurisdiction and over time. Hence the data should be connected to the use, not the domain itself. <br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span lang="EN-US">-- <br>Volker A. Greimann<br>General Counsel and Policy Manager<br><b>KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH</b><br><br>T: +49 6894 9396901<br>M: +49 6894 9396851<br>F: +49 6894 9396851<br>W: </span><a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US">www.key-systems.net</span></a><span lang="EN-US"><br><br>Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835<br>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br><br>Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.</span><br></div></div></div><br></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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<td style="width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank" style="color:#4453ea">www.avast.com</a>
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</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 4:25 PM Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com">greg@illumintel.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_6507083091160293485WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Volker, checking the details on the Web site is easier in your country, Germany. There the Telemedia Act requires that a web site owner post a great deal of information that allows a consumer to identify the provider. That includes address, details about the entity’s authorized representative (often the name of a legal person), telephone number and/or email address, details about shares and nominal capital, the company registration number, VAT number, and more. It’s required even if services are offered not in return for payment but if advertisements are used to generate income.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">But that’s not the law in most of the world, which have no such requirement.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The German law seems like a reminder that those engaged in commercial activity are not entitled to anonymity under GDPR.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">--Greg<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <<a href="mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg" target="_blank">Hadia@tra.gov.eg</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] ALAC Use Cases - Consumer Protection<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Case 2 seems to be a bit far fetched and based on a discussion that has been done to death in various fora and WGs on ICANN previously. Do we really want to continue beating this dead horse? If a user wants to verify a site he wants to do business with, he can check the information on that site or in the SSL Certificate. If neither are present, that should tell any sensible user enough. There is absolutely no need for whois access for this purpose. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Case 1 seems to refer to a case that is better handled by LEAs. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>Volker A. Greimann<br>General Counsel and Policy Manager<br><b>KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH</b><br><br>T: +49 6894 9396901<br>M: +49 6894 9396851<br>F: +49 6894 9396851<br>W: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">www.key-systems.net</span></a><br><br>Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835<br>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br><br>Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><div id="gmail-m_6507083091160293485DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><table class="gmail-m_6507083091160293485MsoNormalTable" style="border-color:rgb(211,212,222) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium" cellpadding="0" border="1"><tbody><tr><td style="width:41.25pt;border:medium none;padding:9.75pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="55"><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img style="width: 0.4791in; height: 0.302in;" id="gmail-m_6507083091160293485_x0000_i1028" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" width="46" height="29" border="0"></span></a><u></u><u></u></p></td><td style="width:352.5pt;border:medium none;padding:9pt 0.75pt 0.75pt" width="470"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:rgb(65,66,78)">Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(68,83,234)">www.avast.com</span></a> <u></u><u></u></span></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:26 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <<a href="mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg" target="_blank">Hadia@tra.gov.eg</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Team,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Please find attached two use cases in relation to consumer protection. Apologies for being late and for any inconvenience this may cause.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Best<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hadia <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Eng. Hadia Elminiawi (M.Sc.)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Director, DNS-Entrepreneurship Center<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img style="width: 0.6875in; height: 0.3958in;" id="gmail-m_6507083091160293485gmail-m_-1425807763954698814Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:16be53c4d684ce8e91" alt="Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268513_180152888707645_7698168_n.jpg" width="66" height="38" border="0"></span><img style="width: 0.802in; height: 0.302in;" id="gmail-m_6507083091160293485gmail-m_-1425807763954698814Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:16be53c4d685b16b22" alt="logo" width="77" height="29" border="0"><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>Gnso-epdp-team mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div>