<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">This discussion seems to be closely related to how we handle the natural/legal persons distinction.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I see no legitimate use case here in cases of natural persons and noncommercial registrations.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">As a related observation, it has also been proven through prior studies by the Expert Working Group that very few people rely on Whois for identifying the provider of online services. They use other mechanisms
for the most part. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Note also that if an online site is suspected of fraud or other criminal or civil violations, then an LEA should be and will be able to look at the redacted data under another use case.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Aaron<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 11, 2019 10:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann@key-systems.net>; 'Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi' <Hadia@tra.gov.eg><br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] ALAC Use Cases - Consumer Protection<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Volker, checking the details on the Web site is easier in your country, Germany. There the Telemedia Act requires that a web site owner post a great deal of information that allows a consumer to identify the provider. That includes address,
details about the entity’s authorized representative (often the name of a legal person), telephone number and/or email address, details about shares and nominal capital, the company registration number, VAT number, and more. It’s required even if services
are offered not in return for payment but if advertisements are used to generate income.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But that’s not the law in most of the world, which have no such requirement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The German law seems like a reminder that those engaged in commercial activity are not entitled to anonymity under GDPR.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 11, 2019 9:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg><br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] ALAC Use Cases - Consumer Protection<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Case 2 seems to be a bit far fetched and based on a discussion that has been done to death in various fora and WGs on ICANN previously. Do we really want to continue beating this dead horse? If a user wants to verify a site he wants to
do business with, he can check the information on that site or in the SSL Certificate. If neither are present, that should tell any sensible user enough. There is absolutely no need for whois access for this purpose.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Case 1 seems to refer to a case that is better handled by LEAs.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
Volker A. Greimann<br>
General Counsel and Policy Manager<br>
<b>KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH</b><br>
<br>
T: +49 6894 9396901<br>
M: +49 6894 9396851<br>
F: +49 6894 9396851<br>
W: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">www.key-systems.net</span></a><br>
<br>
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835<br>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br>
<br>
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellspacing="3" cellpadding="0" style="border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="58" style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank"><span style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="46" height="29" style="width:.4791in;height:.3055in" id="_x0000_i1028" src="cid:image003.jpg@01D53866.5CAC40F0" alt="Image removed by sender. https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="473" style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.
<a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank">
<span style="color:#4453EA">www.avast.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:26 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <<a href="mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg">Hadia@tra.gov.eg</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear Team,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Please find attached two use cases in relation to consumer protection. Apologies for being late and for any inconvenience this may cause.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hadia
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Eng. Hadia Elminiawi (M.Sc.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Director, DNS-Entrepreneurship Center<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"><img border="0" width="66" height="38" style="width:.6875in;height:.3958in" id="gmail-m_-1425807763954698814Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image004.jpg@01D53866.5CAC40F0" alt="Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/268513_180152888707645_7698168_n.jpg"></span><img border="0" width="77" height="29" style="width:.8055in;height:.3055in" id="gmail-m_-1425807763954698814Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image005.png@01D53866.5CAC40F0" alt="logo"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-epdp-team mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-epdp-team</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style
delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>