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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I see the ALAC use case as addressing the eventuality that an internet user doubts the authenticity of, for example, a link in an email the user has received. In such a case of suspected phishing/fraud, it
wouldn’t be outside ICANN’s Mission to coordinate the user’s non-compulsory request for data about the registrant through the same channel used for other SSAD requests.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It seems we agree that such a request must be weighed against the registrant’s privacy rights (if any exist), and perhaps we disagree about whether the user’s request might ever outweigh the registrant’s privacy
rights (we think there are cases where it would). We’re happy to note this disagreement and move on, but let’s be careful with this rhetorical point. While I’d love to hear that folks outside of CSG and the ACs support redacting only data pertaining to registrants
who are subject to GDPR (therefore eliminating the need for such a request), previous conversations in this EPDP do not support such an assumption. Until that particular pig grows its wings, the ALAC use case has even clearer merit.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Brian J. King
</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> <br>
Director of Internet Policy and Industry Affairs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">T +1 443 761 3726</span><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0563C1"><a href="http://www.markmonitor.com"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span>markmonitor.com</a></span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">MarkMonitor<br>
</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Protecting companies and consumers in a digital world<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mueller, Milton L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 12, 2019 12:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mark Svancarek (CELA) <marksv@microsoft.com>; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the subject of ICANN's Bylaws...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I wish our positions were compatible. But I don’t think they are. Hadia (and Greg if I am not mistaken) are saying that the ALAC use case is justified because consumer protection is “in the global
public interest.” My view, and apparently that of James Bladel and Alan Woods, is that the ALAC case seems to extend ICANN authority to general consumer protection which is outside the scope of ICANN’s mission.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Actually there is an even stronger reason to discard this use case. In effect, advocates of this use case are saying that a consumer’s curiosity about who is behind a domain is sufficient cause
to disclose protected data. I think this fails the 6.1.f balancing test prima facie. Curiosity does not outweigh a fundamental right, ever. Note well: the advocates of this use case are NOT saying that this is a remedy for fraud or some other form of actual
consumer abuse. They say they need to expose this data BEFORE a transaction takes place, before fraud is even possible, because a consumer may be curious or feel uncertain about who is behind it. This is a very, very, very weak rationale, and I see no way
that it passes a balancing test. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Indeed, if that is a valid justification for disclosure, then we are back in the realm of the pre-GDPR Whois, because it means that anyone for any reason can be curious about who is behind a
domain and might benefit from knowing the private data of the registrant. If we accept the ALAC 2 as a valid use case, we are back to pre-temp spec Whois. We all know that is not legal or acceptable. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dr. Milton L Mueller<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Georgia Institute of Technology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">School of Public Policy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Mark Svancarek (CELA) <<a href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com">marksv@microsoft.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 12, 2019 12:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu">milton@gatech.edu</a>>; Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com">greg@illumintel.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the subject of ICANN's Bylaws...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:JA">Milton, aren’t you and Greg (in this narrow topic) saying compatible things?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:JA">MiMu: Public interest is to be determined within MSM<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:JA">GrAa: Let’s discuss this topic within EPDP<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:JA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mueller, Milton L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 12, 2019 9:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com">greg@illumintel.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the subject of ICANN's Bylaws...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">All:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Let me provide some background about Greg’s favorite section of the bylaws. He is fixated on the presence of three words he likes (global public interest) and not the actual meaning of the section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">That core value emerged from a debate about the extent to which “the global public interest” was a meaningful guide to policy making. Those of us with extensive experience with regulatory systems
around the world know that “public interest” is a blanket term that can be used to justify almost anything, from completely shutting down the internet to martial law to rate regulation. We knew as we were debating this that anyone can, and everyone does, claim
that whatever policy they want is “in the public interest.” We did not want the Board to have the discretion to “divine” the public interest and use that divination to make policy unilaterally. There was, therefore a desire to carefully limit and bound public
interest claims.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Now look at what 1.2(b)iii actually says. It does NOT say that ICANN’s authority over Internet activity pertains to anything and everything that might be in the global public interest. It says
that insofar as an ICANN policy is determined to be in the public interest, it must be so determined by a _<i>bottom up, multistakeholder policy process</i>_ and that such process must be _<i>accountable and transparent</i>_.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">In other words, this section of the bylaws only tells us _<i>how</i>_ the public interest in any given policy domain is to be ascertained. It does not expand ICANN’s mandate to include anything
anyone thinks might be in the public interest. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Aaron<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 12, 2019 10:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'James M. Bladel' <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the subject of ICANN's Bylaws...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear James:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you for your note. I can only speak to the comments I made in Thursday’s call. I did not reference ICANN’s Bylaws about “Competition and Consumer Trust” at all. Your references to Bylaws 4.6 are
not relevant to my comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Some members had stated that the ALAC use case should not even be discussed, because its premise is out of ICANN scope. I stated that it’s our obligation to talk about such issues.<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> I referenced Bylaws 1.2(b)iii
-- in the Core Values section – which says that the point of ICANN “policy development and decision-making [is] <b>to ensure that the bottom-up, multistakeholder policy development process is used to ascertain the global public interest and that those
processes are accountable and transparen</b>t”. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My point was that as policy-makers, we are all obliged to apply that principle, especially since this working group is making decisions that will affect millions (if not billions) of people. It is a reminder for us to keep the big picture
in mind, and that we’re here to ascertain what’s good for the Internet and discern what options exist within the law to serve that greater purpose. The SSAC has previously encouraged the ePDP to consider the impacts on how registrants and users interact for
contactability, problem-solving, the avoidance of fraud, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In any case, the CCT Reviews you reference in Bylaws <span style="font-size:11.0pt">
Section 4.6(d) are not the place to shunt all items that involve public impacts. According to the Bylaws, the CCT Reviews exist to examine only a limited set of things – basically CCT issues coming out of the new gTLD program. Instead, any PDP can consider
impacts on registrants and users as those issues come up within a WG’s charter. AFAIK our charter does not prohibit such. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Your points below about alternate means are a contribution to the substantive debate, and thanks for them. But again, we can only have that debate if we all remember our main decision-making principles, and
if issues are on the table in the first place, rather than kept off the table for some reason.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">All best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">--Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James M. Bladel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 9, 2019 11:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-epdp-team] On the subject of ICANN's Bylaws...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Good morning, Colleagues-</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">During yesterday’s call, a few folks mentioned that ICANN’s Bylaws contain commitments to uphold “Competition” and “Consumer Choice/Consumer Trust”. These references to the Bylaws were offered in support
of the proposed Use Case that RDS data should be a primary resource for consumers who are seeking to verify the operator of a website, or check the reputation of business, or to dispute a commercial transaction.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">For clarity, it’s worth noting that the predominant context for “competition” in ICANN’s Bylaws is specific to the domain name industry, esp. Registries and Registrars. And this makes sense, given that the
industry prior to ICANN had no concept of “competition” or “consumer choice”; all domain transactions were handled by a single provider.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Additionally, mentions of “consumer protection”, “consumer choice”, and “consumer trust” within the Bylaws are contained within Section 4.6(d), which outlines the “Periodic Reviews”, and are an element of
the 2012 New gTLD program. These sections were ported to the Bylaws from the Affirmation of Commitments, and were drafted when many feared that new gTLDs would confuse consumers and undermine trust/confidence in the DNS.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Taken together, it’s not correct to conclude that WHOIS/RDS data is intended to replace or preempt more widely recognized alternative tools for online consumers, like:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">SSL certificates, verified by Certificate Authorities (CA) and supported by all modern browsers</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Trust certificates (issued by organizations like the Better Business Bureau, Trustwave, McAffee, SiteLock, and card processors like Visa/Mastercard)
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Reputation/review services like Google ratings, Yelp, and Facebook or Amazon reviews, and</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The “About Us” or “Contact Us” or “Customer Support” links on merchant websites, which are omnipresent for legitimate businesses and required by law in many areas.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">But if this is still a point of divergence among the EPDP members, then perhaps we could consult ICANN Legal about the extent of their “Competition” and “Consumer Trust” mandate, and whether they believe ICANN
is on the hook for the integrity & consumer satisfaction for all commercial activity taking place anywhere on the Internet.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">J.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue Light";color:black">-------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue Light";color:black">James Bladel</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue Light";color:#00B050">GoDaddy</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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