<div dir="ltr">To quickly respond to Greg's point, I think we are way beyond the point of understanding the spirit of the requests. As previously noted we would not be sitting at this table if we did not all patently understand the "why"; our point remains that even the most worthy of reasons may fall foul of an inadequate form, explanation or justification . The law has set out the principles and we must devise policy that respects that law - need I also remind, we did not write the law, we, (and for clarity the WE here is the contracted parties and not the 3rd party requester) are the ones that must follow it here in the first instance. All the good intentions in the world will not remedy illegality in our policy. <div><br><div>To echo the sentiment of the CPH letter sent on Tuesday, and noting Janis has indicated that he hopes that the Zero Version report shall start that path, I will reiterated that we need to create policy that is aimed at expecting and glean the type of information required in a request, and not merely provide 'standard' request formats based on 'Case Study 1 through <span style="color:rgb(84,84,84);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><b>∞</b></span> . Every request received will be unique - the policy/ process on how to deal with each unique request - is what we should be trying to standardize. <div><br></div><div>Therefore to answer Mark's question as to what concrete steps I'm talking about , using our 'use case' discussion and indeed my own reasoning when reviewing them,I have thrown together a <b>really rough draft </b>of the process which, when we cut through the concept of justifying angles, and actually critically identify the process necessary in a 6(1)f situation - This was merely an exercise of taking the process we are going through in our heads in our deliberations, and writing it down for posterity. So I have tried to focus on the process elements, which I go through in assessing the individual "case study" - we need to take a step back to viewing a case study (singular) as raw material to see what process steps we take to treat that material, and come up with an answer - either 1)release 2)request more info or 3)decline. </div><div><div><br></div><div>I hope it helps!</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Alan</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div><div><div>PS : to be clear this is my document not a RYSG or CPH doc</div><div><div><div> <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="m_6636187715293408827gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><table style="padding:0px;margin:10px 0;border:none"><tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:0px 7px 0px 0px"><a href="http://donuts.domains" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><img alt="Donuts Inc." height="75" src="https://storage.googleapis.com/signaturesatori/customer-C02zzlf7k/images/-54f9d8ac97e7f575bf497d10ac1f1aafafddf8afceab5f269d49034f01b3217b.png" width="75"></a></td><td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:0px 7px 0px 0px;text-align:left">
<div style="font-family:'tahoma',sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:17px;font-weight:bold;color:black"><span style="font-size:12px"><span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">Alan Woods</span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12px"><span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif"><span style="color:#333333">Senior Compliance & Policy Manager, Donuts Inc.</span></span></span>
<hr><span style="font-size:11px"><span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif"><span style="color:#333333">The Victorians, </span></span></span></div><div><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11px">15-18 Earlsfort Terrace<br style="background-color:rgb(34,34,34)">
Dublin 2, County Dublin</span></font><br style="color:rgb(214,214,214);font-family:'open sans';font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font color="#333333" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11px">
Ireland</span></font><br>
<span style="font-size:11px"><span style="font-family:'arial','helvetica',sans-serif"></span></span><br>
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</div><div><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria,serif">Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information owned by Donuts Inc. . </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria,serif">Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Thank you.</span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:44 PM Mark Svancarek (CELA) <<a href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" target="_blank">marksv@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>Alan</span></b><span>, your advice seems reasonable, but I am not sure I am understanding what you are suggesting in actual practice.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Regarding:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">“The past 2 use cases we have considered, although we appreciate the work that was undertaken to present to us in such detail, both requests were ultimately based on the same process of a 6(1)f. Our task
must be to see-past the window dressing and consider the similarities and commonalities of the underlying process involved; this is after all, our goal. We seem to have slipped back into scrambling to getting our ‘interests’ and our ‘claims’ on the record
for fear they somehow will not be accepted from consideration; we would again like to assert, that in the interests of time and resources, that the team should be prioritizing review of contrasting use cases, ones that require differing approaches, to further
anticipate the breadth of the policy required, and not merely rehashing the same process from a different angle. “</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>What should we have done differently, and how would you propose to handle it going forward? Some specificity would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan Woods<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 12, 2019 1:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James M. Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com" target="_blank">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the subject of ICANN's Bylaws...<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Dear Colleagues,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">The RYSG would like to support and thank James for his excellent response. We appreciate especially the reminder that the context in our discussions is key and we must resist, however how inadvertently,
layering our own interpretations on top of settled, and defined concepts. Needless to say we support his reasoning wholeheartedly.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">We would further like to note 2 things. We do believe that this creep of the legal vs natural discussion back into our agenda, as was already very well responded to by Volker earlier today, is tending
to be again, a large distraction to our focus on other legitimate use cases that help establish the process – At this point, and noting the calls for speed and structure from all quarters, we would kindly request that the discussion on legal vs. natural should
only occur as part of the priority 2 discussions, as has been agreed to by the group.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in">
<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Secondly, we must also remind the group, that the point of these uses cases is not so that we can create a cookie cutter responses in specific cases, e.g. the security researcher or even in the case of
the consumer. The past 2 use cases we have considered, although we appreciate the work that was undertaken to present to us in such detail, both requests were ultimately based on the same process of a 6(1)f. Our task must be to see-past the window dressing
and consider the similarities and commonalities of the underlying process involved; this is after all, our goal. We seem to have slipped back into scrambling to getting our ‘interests’ and our ‘claims’ on the record for fear they somehow will not be accepted
from consideration; we would again like to assert, that in the interests of time and resources, that the team should be prioritizing review of contrasting use cases, ones that require differing approaches, to further anticipate the breadth of the policy required,
and not merely rehashing the same process from a different angle. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in">
<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Kind regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in">
<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Alan Woods</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Alan Woods</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
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<span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Senior Compliance & Policy Manager, Donuts Inc.</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">The Victorians, </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">15-18 Earlsfort Terrace<br>
Dublin 2, County Dublin</span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"open sans",serif;color:rgb(214,214,214)"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Ireland</span><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria,serif">Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information owned by Donuts Inc. . Any distribution or use of
this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. Thank you.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 4:47 PM James M. Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com" target="_blank">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Good morning, Colleagues-<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">During yesterday’s call, a few folks mentioned that ICANN’s Bylaws contain commitments to uphold “Competition” and “Consumer Choice/Consumer Trust”. These references to the Bylaws
were offered in support of the proposed Use Case that RDS data should be a primary resource for consumers who are seeking to verify the operator of a website, or check the reputation of business, or to dispute a commercial transaction.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For clarity, it’s worth noting that the predominant context for “competition” in ICANN’s Bylaws is specific to the domain name industry, esp. Registries and Registrars. And this
makes sense, given that the industry prior to ICANN had no concept of “competition” or “consumer choice”; all domain transactions were handled by a single provider.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Additionally, mentions of “consumer protection”, “consumer choice”, and “consumer trust” within the Bylaws are contained within Section 4.6(d), which outlines the “Periodic Reviews”,
and are an element of the 2012 New gTLD program. These sections were ported to the Bylaws from the Affirmation of Commitments, and were drafted when many feared that new gTLDs would confuse consumers and undermine trust/confidence in the DNS.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Taken together, it’s not correct to conclude that WHOIS/RDS data is intended to replace or preempt more widely recognized alternative tools for online consumers, like:<u></u><u></u></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="gmail-m_6636187715293408827gmail-m_5111248706730349129gmail-m-7321004227643935674msolistparagraph">
SSL certificates, verified by Certificate Authorities (CA) and supported by all modern browsers<u></u><u></u></li><li class="gmail-m_6636187715293408827gmail-m_5111248706730349129gmail-m-7321004227643935674msolistparagraph">
Trust certificates (issued by organizations like the Better Business Bureau, Trustwave, McAffee, SiteLock, and card processors like Visa/Mastercard)
<u></u><u></u></li><li class="gmail-m_6636187715293408827gmail-m_5111248706730349129gmail-m-7321004227643935674msolistparagraph">
Reputation/review services like Google ratings, Yelp, and Facebook or Amazon reviews, and<u></u><u></u></li><li class="gmail-m_6636187715293408827gmail-m_5111248706730349129gmail-m-7321004227643935674msolistparagraph">
The “About Us” or “Contact Us” or “Customer Support” links on merchant websites, which are omnipresent for legitimate businesses and required by law in many areas.<u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But if this is still a point of divergence among the EPDP members, then perhaps we could consult ICANN Legal about the extent of their “Competition” and “Consumer Trust” mandate,
and whether they believe ICANN is on the hook for the integrity & consumer satisfaction for all commercial activity taking place anywhere on the Internet.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">J.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue Light";color:black">-------------</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue Light";color:black">James Bladel</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue Light";color:rgb(0,176,80)">GoDaddy</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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