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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">+1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mueller, Milton L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 23, 2019 8:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mueller, Milton L <milton@gatech.edu>; Greg Aaron <greg@illumintel.com>; 'James M. Bladel' <jbladel@godaddy.com>; 'Sarah Wyld' <swyld@tucows.com>; gnso-epdp-team@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Questions regarding disclosure risks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I see in a later email Greg made it clear that his Model 1 encompasses either ICANN or the registrar being “the decider.”
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Because of the importance of that distinction, I think we should give the two a different name, perhaps 1a (ICANN decides) and 1b (registrar decides)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mueller, Milton L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 23, 2019 11:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com">greg@illumintel.com</a>>; 'James M. Bladel' <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>; 'Sarah Wyld' <<a href="mailto:swyld@tucows.com">swyld@tucows.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Questions regarding disclosure risks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">This is a pretty good overview of the models but I think there is a fourth option in there that needs to be aired.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">In Model #1, ICANN is the central point for distributing queries. You imply further down in your discussion that ICANN is ALSO the decision maker regarding disclosure. However, it does not have to be that way.
ICANN could be a central point for distributing queries, but the ultimate decision could still rest with the registrar.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">This, in fact, is the model we see as most viable in terms of gaining consensus among stakeholders and operating efficiently and legally.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Aaron<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 20, 2019 1:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'James M. Bladel' <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>; 'Sarah Wyld' <<a href="mailto:swyld@tucows.com">swyld@tucows.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Questions regarding disclosure risks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Thanks much, James. My observation is about the models we discussed in L.A. (What kinds of hamburgers are on the menu?) We should be precise about what we mean by “distributed”. I see three models:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:windowtext;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo3">Model #1: Queries come from requestors into a central point (run somehow by ICANN), that central point distributes the queries to the relevant registrars/registries, then the central point
routes the replies back to the requestors. The central point also passes out authentication credentials to the parties making queries. This is the technical model the TSG wrote about. This has a DISTRIBUTED data model – the data resides at the registries/registrars.
It has CENTRALIZED query input/output and access/authentication functions.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:windowtext;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo3">Model #2: A central point passes out authentication credentials, and requestors and registries/registrars then use those to trade queries with each other directly. This is a DISTRIBUTED
model in two ways: the data is distributed because it resides at the registries/registrars, and query-making and response takes place among distributed parties. It is CENTRALIZED in one way: access/authentication functions.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:windowtext;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo3">Model #3: ICANN holds a registry containing all RDS data, obtained from the registries/registrars, and all queries go to and immediately served back from there. The central point also controls
access (authentication creds). This is all CENTRALIZED. I will call this the Lord of the Rings Model: “One registry to rule them all / One registry to find them / One registry to bring them all / And at ICANN bind them.”<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">In Model #1, ICANN can be the party making the disclosure decisions. In that case, the registry/registrar would be acting pretty much as a data processor – if ICANN sends it a query, the registry/registrar
simply supplies the data. Or, the registrar/registry can be the decision-maker in model #1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Model #2 only allows the registry/registrar to be the decision-maker.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Model #3 exists only for ICANN to be the decision-maker.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">So, ICANN can be “the decider” without a centralized registry. The most crucial question is whether ICANN can or will act as the decider. If ICANN’s the decider, then we have a choice between Model #1 or
Model #3. If ICANN will not be the decider, then we have a choice of Model #1 or Model #2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Sarah posited ICANN as the decider, and then said the registry/registrar would be making 6(1)f decisions. I didn’t understand that, because there can only be one decider.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">So, we need to know who the decider will be. And the WG should enumerate the plusses and minuses of each of the models.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">All best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">--Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> James M. Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 20, 2019 11:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com">greg@illumintel.com</a>>; 'Sarah Wyld' <<a href="mailto:swyld@tucows.com">swyld@tucows.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Questions regarding disclosure risks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Greg et al -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Sarahs’ Alt super powers expired at midnight yesterday and her laptop has now turned back in to a pumpkin. So I’ll respond to Greg and pose a few questions
to ICANN Staff.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Greg - In this case, Yes. “Addressed” = making the disclosure decision, and (if affirmative) providing the Requestor with the requested non-public data. For
clarity, “provided” can mean that ICANN sends the data directly to the Requestor, or somehow
<b>causes</b> another (contracted) party to transmit the data to the Requestor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Many EPDP members have expressed a desire to work with ICANN directly, rather than route requests to individual Contracted Parties. They would also prefer
to have ICANN make the disclosure determination, as opposed to leaving this to the affected Contracted Party (please jump in if I’m misunderstanding/mischaracterizing this point).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Therefore, the questions we (me, Sarah, Registrars, ePDP) would like to refer to our Staff Liaisons are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Does ICANN have a clear preference on whether or not it will:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">1. Field these requests for non-public data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">2. Maintain its own RDS replica database<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">3. Make a/the determination of the validity of the request<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">4. Assume responsibility for this decision, in any scenario where ICANN doesn’t hold the data directly and must require a Contracted Party to respond to the
Requestor (even if the Contracted Party disputes ICANN’s determination).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">We have been dancing around these questions for a quite a while, and I now believe the answers stand between us and progress on our work. Either ICANN agrees
to assume some/all of the role of decision-maker (and accept responsibility for making this decision), or we abandon the “centralized” version of SSAD and instead focus our efforts on developing a distributed model (which is expressly opposed by some “requestor”
stakeholders). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Either way, the is the fork in the road, and we need a clear path forward. If there are no further questions or objections, I recommend that Marika/Staff refer
this to our liaisons. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Thanks—<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">J.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">_______________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">James Bladel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">GoDaddy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;line-height:150%">
<span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">
<hr size="2" width="98%" align="center">
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><b><span style="color:#333333">From:</span></b><span style="color:#333333"> Gnso-epdp-team <<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com">greg@illumintel.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2019 14:25<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Sarah Wyld'; <a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Questions regarding disclosure risks <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:#333333"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid #A6A6A6 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 14.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;background:#EBEBEB"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#333333">Notice:This email is from an external sender.
</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext">When you say “addressed” what do you mean -- that ICANN decides whether the data should be disclosed in response to a query?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Sarah Wyld <<a href="mailto:swyld@tucows.com">swyld@tucows.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2019 11:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Aaron <<a href="mailto:greg@illumintel.com">greg@illumintel.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] Questions regarding disclosure risks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333">Hi Greg,<br>
<br>
"Responding party" here would mean that requests are received and addressed by ICANN Org. This email focused specifically on questions raised by ICANN Org working in this capacity, I'm interested to see what other scenarios you could expect to occur here.</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#333333">Thanks.</span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="line-height:150%">-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">Sarah Wyld<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">Domains Product Team<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">Tucows<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">+1.416 535 0123 Ext. 1392<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%">On 9/19/2019 10:12 AM, Greg Aaron wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext">Sarah, what do you mean by “responding party”? For example so your scenarios assume that ICANN is acting in a specific legal capacity?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext">I ask because depending on what you mean, there may be other scenarios.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext">All best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext">--Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Gnso-epdp-team</span><a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org"><gnso-epdp-team-bounces@icann.org></a><b><span style="color:windowtext">On
Behalf Of </span></b><span style="color:windowtext">Sarah Wyld<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 18, 2019 3:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-epdp-team@icann.org">gnso-epdp-team@icann.org</a><span style="color:windowtext"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-epdp-team] Questions regarding disclosure risks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">During the recent EPDP face-to-face meetings in Los Angeles, several members of the working group expressed a desire to position ICANN as the responding party to requests for
disclosure of non-public registration data.<br>
<br>
In order to fulfill this request, one of two things must be true. Either:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6">ICANN Org maintains a current (<24 hours) copy of the entire RDS database; or<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6">ICANN has some mechanism (contract clause) to compel the Contracted Party to disclose the data to ICANN or the requestor<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p style="line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333">These potential scenarios raise the following questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo9">In the first scenario, does ICANN accept the legal risks and operational costs of maintaining its own replica of all RDS data for gTLDs? If not, how would those risks and costs be addressed?<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo9">In the second scenario, will ICANN “relay” disclosed data between the requestor and the Registry/Registrar?<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:150%;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo9">What should be done in situations where ICANN instructs the Registry/Registrar to disclose data (either to ICANN or the requestor), but the contracted party has determined that the request
is not legitimate and refuses? Is this matter referred to ICANN compliance? <o:p>
</o:p></li></ol>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:150%"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:#333333"><br>
Thank you, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="line-height:150%">-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">Sarah Wyld<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">Domains Product Team<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">Tucows<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%">+1.416 535 0123 Ext. 1392<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="line-height:150%"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
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