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Thank you Milton, for sharing your wisdom with us.<br><br>
At 2020-07-31 12:05 AM, Mueller, Milton L wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="">My answer to Becky and
Volker’s question is a bit different from Alan’s, as you might
imagine. <br>
<br>
1. It makes no sense at this point to
talk about which specific recommendations have consensus or not. There
are several SGs or ACs who didn’t get _<i>exactly</i>_ what they wanted
in specific recommendations. We are among them. Too bad. Petulant
children cannot deal with such disappointment;</blockquote><br>
I appreciate your deep psychological insight allowing you to understand
and explain the motives behind our actions.<br><br>
I always thought that a prime characteristic of children is their
propensity for name-calling.<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite=""> adults operating in the
real world can. We are all adults here. The issue now is whether one
would vote to pass the entire policy or not. <b>It’s binary now.</b> Do
you want there to be an SSAD or not? Pass the report, or not. Do not
entertain the illusion that withholding support for this or that section
will reboot the entire process and get exactly what you want. Please do
not entertain the corrupt notion that you can sink this process and then
go into backrooms with national governments or the ICANN board to make
something different come out of it. You will get this report or you will
get nothing. <br>
<br>
2. That vote – up or down – will
notnot take place here. It will take place in the GNSO Council. The
Council is all that really matters at this point. That is as it should
be, that is how ICANN is supposed to work. Though they can participate in
PDPs, ACs are advisory and are not charged with making Names policy.
Thank you for your input, ACs, it was highly influential and useful. Now
we take it to the GNSO. <br>
<br>
3. Alan tries to suggest that the
Council cannot pass recommendations that do not have consensus
support</blockquote><br>
No, I did not. I simply pointed out that this was a decision that the
Council must take. Not an action that in my recollection it has ever
taken before, but my recollection may of course be incorrect.<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite="">. See item #1 above. The Council
will not be voting on individual recommendations. It will vote on the
entire report. Based on the current configuration of the GNSO, there is
no doubt that this report can pass the Council with Consensus support.
The only real opponents on the Council are IPC and BC, who constitute
merely 2/3 of a single Stakeholder Group. </blockquote><br>
And here you do show insight into motivations for why some of us believed
that an evolution mechanism requiring GNSO Council approval might be less
than optimal. Council can indeed do what it wants despite the
recommendations it gets.<br><br>
Alan<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="cite" cite=""> <br>
4. Of course the Board will recognize
the consensus of the GNSO Council. On what basis would it not? It cannot
substitute its own policy for the one we developed; that violates the
bylaws. The most it can do is send it back to us. Hmmm, I believe that
the Board’s connection to reality is sufficiently strong that it
realizes the futility of a send-back. No holdouts will change their
position after another round in the ring. We are all punch drunk, nothing
is going to change. The EPDP report and its current consensus
designations are accurate reflections of where different elements of the
community stand on Whois reform. The preponderance of support is there.
We’ve done it. <br>
<br>
Look at this with some perspective. It’s actually a bit surprising that
a report as complicated as this, addressing issues as contentious as
this, has as much support as it does. Surely the board is aware of that.
<br>
<br>
Dr. Milton L Mueller<br>
Georgia Institute of Technology<br>
School of Public Policy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> If the GNSO adopts these recommendations (either because <br>
> all the dissenters flip or it decides to adopt recommendations <br>
> with non-consensus support, AND the Board decides that it should
<br>
> go ahead (despite the cost, the potential LONG implementation time,
and the belief of many that it will not meet their needs, then that's the
end game. With "something" in place or planned, there is no way
the GNSO (with 3/4 SGs basically supporting it) would we revisit this
again in our life-times.<br>
<br>
If it fails to proceed, the problems we now have are still there. Perhaps
as the BC/IPC predict, there may be legislative alternatives. Perhaps if
all this would be was a glorified ticketing system, then we should just
build a ticketing system. Then at least we have statistics...<br><br>
Perhaps the Board will decide that it needs to understand WHY we are in
this position. It didn't just magically appear in a puff of smoke - there
have been plenty of warning signs.<br><br>
Alan<br>
<br>
At 2020-07-30 06:13 PM, Becky Burr wrote:<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>I'd love to hear reactions to Volker's question (If the requestor
side does not see this as an improvement over the status quo, what are we
left with? What is the purpose in building this SSAD if those who are set
to benefit from it do not seem to want it?) . How should the Board
see this?<br><br>
<dd>On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:26 AM Volker Greimann
<<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">
vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<dd>Conditional support is support in my book. <br>
<dd>In my personal opinion, I should again stress that as CP we are
proposing to build this system for the requestor side, not for ourselves.
If the requestor side does not see this as an improvement over the status
quo, what are we left with? What is the purpose in building this SSAD if
those who are set to benefit from it do not seem to want it? <br>
<dd>We seem to have divergence on Priority Levels, SLAs and Financial
Sustainability. So are we better off with a system without these and
should strike the recommendations altogether? <br>
<dd>As to financing, in the end, we will still have to figure out how
this system is financed and I doubt the solution ICANN comes up with will
be any different than what we have proposed, especially since I doubt we
will ever agree to registrants or CPs paying for this. The general
principle of whoever orders the music shall pay for the band will always
apply. <br>
<dd>I would therefore like to urge all parties withholding their support
to re-think their positions and move away from these all-or-nothing
approaches. Having caught a small fish is better than not catching a fish
at all.<br>
<dd>Best,<br>
<dd>-- <br>
<dd>Volker A. Greimann<br>
<dd>General Counsel and Policy Manager<br>
<dd>KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH<br>
<dd>T: +49 6894 9396901<br>
<dd>M: +49 6894 9396851<br>
<dd>F: +49 6894 9396851<br>
<dd>W: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/">www.key-systems.net</a><br>
<dd>Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835<br>
<dd>CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner<br>
<dd>Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
England and Wales with company number 8576358.<br><br>
<dd>On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 2:36 PM Thomas Rickert
<<a href="mailto:epdp@gdpr.ninja">epdp@gdpr.ninja</a>> wrote:<br>
<dd>All, sorry it’s me again. <br>
<dd>Rafik just pointed out to me that he has written about conditional
support in his e-mail. That is true and I should have mentioned that.
However, conditional support is nothing that GNSO rules know as a term
and the cautious interpretation thereof by the Chair is also nothing that
the rules know. We will see how this plays out, but <br>
<dd>- I would prefer for objections and support to be unambiguous so that
the chair’s designatiation is made easier (and less prone to be
complained about) <br>
<dd>- conditional support might be interpreted less cautiously as
objections, particularly if there is more movement on the level of
support before the deadline.<br>
<dd>Best,<br>
<dd>Thomas<br>
<br><br>
<dl>
<dd>Am 30.07.2020 um 14:14 schrieb Thomas Rickert
<<a href="mailto:epdp@gdpr.ninja">epdp@gdpr.ninja</a>>:<br>
<dd>Hi Rafik, all,<br>
<dd>I hope you forgive me for writing a few lines in my personal
capacity. These are not ISPCP comments, but I will point out that the
ISPCP does not object to any of the recommendations in the spirit of
collaboration and to support the work we have done. Are we happy with
everything in the report, certainly not, but we are where we are. We know
this is a challenging topic from a legal and a policy perspective and we
all have to trust in the system to be improved over time when there will
be more trust in such system and less areas that are unknown.<br>
<dd>Looking at the number of objections is quite shocking. We only have
full consensus on 1 recommendation. A few quick points:<br>
<dd>1. How shall a system be implemented / operationalised absent a
recommendation on financial sustainability? We have divergence there,
which means that we have nothing for the Council or ICANN Org to
lean.<br>
<dd>2. Accuracy was taken off the table by the GNSO Council, so I am not
sure whether it is adequate wo withhold support for recommendations
because the accuracy part has not been worked on. Many ISPCP members have
an interest in the accuracy discussion, but that will be dealt with
elsewhere.<br>
<dd>3. Recommendation 18 is bordering divergence. The system will only
get better if there is a good process for making it better within the
boundaries of what can be done under GNSO rules. I think the compromise
that was struck is a good basis for that. Changes to the system will be
even harder if there is no good support for Rec. 18. <br>
<dd>4. Question for Rafik: How will you deal with conditional support? As
far as I know the rules, there is nothing describing conditional support.
Will you consider these as objections? That would change the landscape,
in particular with respect to Rec. 18.<br>
<dd>Thanks for reading thus far. <br>
<dd>Best,<br>
<dd>Thomas<br>
<dd> <br><br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd>Am 30.07.2020 um 12:07 schrieb Rafik Dammak
<<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>
>:<br>
<dd>Hi all,<br>
<dd>Thanks for reviewing the consensus designation and sending by the
deadline your input to indicate support or objection to recommendations.
I revised the consensus designation based on what was received by the
deadline.<br>
<dd>I will give 24 hours for final review to check the revised consensus
designation, 31st July 12:00PM UTC. The staff still needs to finish
attaching the different pieces for the final report by the deadline. I
would like to emphasize one thing in particular. Regarding ALAC
conditional support for SSAD related recommendations, unfortunately I
have cautiously interpreted them as opposition for several reasons.
Of course, if the ALAC disagrees with this designation, they can share
their input by the deadline.<br>
<dd>I cannot find any mention in the GNSO working group guidelines
covering such cases. I also cannot recall similar precedents in previous
GNSO PDP WGs. The consensus designation is supposed to be final at the
time of publication and report submission and shouldn’t„˘t be amended
when moving to GNSO council review since they are to some extent the
basis for council decision on approving or not. The GNSO council will
review the report and policy recommendations in order to make a decision.
I will highlight in my communication by the time of submission and during
the presentation of the report the positions indicated by the groups
regarding consensus and their minority statements. I understand the
intent and request for consideration made to GNSO council but procedures
didn’t envision such a situation of having consensensus designation in
undecided or pending state and in my role as chair or council liaison I
am bound to follow the procedures. I cannot guarantee GNSO council
decisions or actions.<br>
<dd>On a separate note, in order to close out final issues, can RrSG can
respond to Laureen's last message on PPSAI (recommendation #19)? On
recommendation #7, I took the note of the latest language agreed by RySG
and BC, removing the RySG no-support of the recommendation. I have
concluded that BC doesn’t agree to to drop the footnote and as result
I have taken note of the NCSG opposition in the consensus
designation.<br>
<dd>Best Regards,<br>
<dd>Rafik<br>
<dd><Consensus designation table - 30 July 2020
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