[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Recordings, Attendance & AC Chat from IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG call on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC

Thu May 25 21:11:54 UTC 2017

Dear All,

Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording and chat below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC.

Mp3:  https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-25may17-en.mp3

<https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-25may17-en.mp3>
AC Recording:  https://participate.icann.org/p4b9arbzl24/

<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gnso-2Dcrp-2Dpdp-2D13oct16-2Den.mp3&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=asM5JoG30Yqf49-Nims9k3McNfFtmzlAe1HmuXI6wic&s=0nZvoU1RqsjvPcNWDN_a2vVZDp9uXeyGO8NN2dN5h74&e=>
On page: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar[gnso.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=Fi0J3ueomxlXt5IfYn-LO7uXv0ucF9HUJN6fdFxFYlc&s=SYpUa4qk5D-dORFtmGZv1ORQ8SSy3UqI1phUrvht0tU&e=>
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=wBBn3Ar2_mvUeGcM8rpOAyluUFEJFG5lASQ-cAccI2k&s=3BfiwO43tzwlrIbIyBY4Q-14zsFQCX518fLLR8GWR7I&e=>

Attendees:
George Kirikos – Individual
Jay Chapman – Individual
Paul Tattersfield – Individual
Petter Rindforth – IPC (co-chair)
Mason Cole – RySG
Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP
David Maher - RySG

Apologies:
Phil Corwin – BC (co-chair)
Mary Wong - staff

ICANN staff:
Steve Chan
Dennis Chang
Michelle DeSmyter

** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **

Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/

Wiki Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/RhPfAw

Thank you.
Kind regards,
Michelle

-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 25 May 2017
Michelle DeSmyter:Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes.
  Michelle DeSmyter:Meeting agenda page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_RhPfAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=SqnPJZ9REvmZ52R6gQ06JUeAVdjcMpa2P6lzb1ph38A&s=6KWOqZ8uB7V1X31G7TQ96Gb7hKx-bqir1JQLF_lbsZA&e=
  George Kirikos:Hi folks.
  Petter Rindforth:Hi George
  George Kirikos:Hi Petter.
  Paul Tattersfield:Hi George, Petter
  George Kirikos:Hi Paul.
  George Kirikos:What's a quorum? 5?
  Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all
  George Kirikos:Hi Osvaldo.
  Steve Chan:Hi George, it's up to chair discretion.
  George Kirikos:We have 5 now. Welcome, Mason.
  Steve Chan:At least we have 4 + chair now though!
  Mason Cole:Greetings
  George Kirikos:Hi again.
  George Kirikos:Adobe totally died on me.
  George Kirikos:I sent some of my thoughts on the discussion document to the mailing list, see: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/2017-May/000742.html
  Steve Chan:@Petter, It's available on the Wiki - I can provide a link
  George Kirikos:Certainty as to applicable law --- not certainty as to the result, though.
  George Kirikos:(law and venue)
  Steve Chan:You can find a number of background documents on the Wiki here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_gnsoicrpmpdp_Background-2BDocuments&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=SqnPJZ9REvmZ52R6gQ06JUeAVdjcMpa2P6lzb1ph38A&s=emqD_4hhWtPBriXgYWNmDS-QVMd1V3doYM4PZ1u1pD8&e=
  Steve Chan:The specific WIPO document is here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_48347918_WIPO-2520SCT-2520paper-2520on-2520de-2520novo-2520appeal-2520mechanism-2520-2D-25202003.doc-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1427406287000-26api-3Dv2&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=SqnPJZ9REvmZ52R6gQ06JUeAVdjcMpa2P6lzb1ph38A&s=qHLWacPpItdt4Ejg6WOSdeXsuoeLL4Yy-DkRH8GugUU&e=
  Jay Chapman:reasonable, legitimate points, George.
  Paul Tattersfield:intersting points George, thanks for explaining them
  George Kirikos:New, in terms of the finality, since Option 1 is a final decision in court, vs. Option 2 is a final decision with less transparency.
  Jay Chapman:Would option 2 have the effect of preventing a registrant from going to a court of mutual prior to the rendering of a UDRP decision?
  George Kirikos:Good point, Jay.
  Paul Tattersfield:Perhaps we could have the best of both options, go with option 1 and recommend the RPM WG looks at offering an arbitration option only with agreement from both parties for all domain names not just IGO names?
  George Kirikos:@Paul: no need for a policy on that, as parties can always voluntarily decide to do so.
  Jay Chapman:Even if the answer to my question is "No",  wouldn't the practical effect of option 2 be encouraging a court to punt?
  Jay Chapman:That's a valid point as well, George.
  Paul Tattersfield:@george in the us yes but not in the uk for example
  George Kirikos:Where is the IGO special procedure created by the USPTO??
  George Kirikos:I'm sure TM holders want all the protections of the courts, and wouldn't agree to procedural changes that reduce their rights simply because an opponent is an IGO.
  Paul Tattersfield:6ter listing?
  George Kirikos:(i.e if an IGO wanted to challenge an issued TM in the US, for example)
  Paul Tattersfield:in rem even?
  Jay Chapman:just for clarification, how many people are in the "Full" wg?
  George Kirikos:28: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D48347895&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=SqnPJZ9REvmZ52R6gQ06JUeAVdjcMpa2P6lzb1ph38A&s=QiX-h51DHHu3RXHWTZche5YQ_AtVkh_QSS5W8N2JTk8&e=
  Steve Chan:Jay, the membership list is here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D48347895&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=SqnPJZ9REvmZ52R6gQ06JUeAVdjcMpa2P6lzb1ph38A&s=QiX-h51DHHu3RXHWTZche5YQ_AtVkh_QSS5W8N2JTk8&e=
  George Kirikos:Lots of inactive members.
  Jay Chapman:We've averaged less than 10 for the past several months on the calls
  Paul Tattersfield:https://community.icann.org/display/gnsoicrpmpdp/Attendance+Records
  George Kirikos:Weight the voting by attendance, perhaps. :-)
  Jay Chapman:thx Paul, Steve
  George Kirikos:That's a good idea.
  George Kirikos:"Registration OR use" vs. "AND", but also the rest of the terms on page 6 (section 4(a)) reflect gaming by IGOs, to rewrite the legal test to make it easier for them to win.
  George Kirikos:And the last part, "must prove that ANY of the elements" instead of ALL elements, etc.
  Paul Tattersfield:@george strange how indpendent people would try and make those extra changes along wih the main issues
  George Kirikos:Page 34, very last point, also raises the point of treating new gTLDs differently from existing domain names.
  George Kirikos:That's what they claim, but the small group proposal was also one-sided.
  George Kirikos:We saw their small group proposal.
  Paul Tattersfield:but the small group report was exparte this was a staff draft
  George Kirikos:We already know IGOs have used the existing UDRP successfully. Just need to educate them more, on their existing options.
  George Kirikos:@Paul: yes, was referencing Petter's statement that the IGOs only wanted a tweak of the UDRP. But, their small group report was more than a tweak.
  George Kirikos:I wrote about the 2007 staff report back in 2007, see CircleID blog post: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.circleid.com_posts_710118-5Fshort-5Fdomain-5Fnames-5Figo-5Fudrp_&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=SqnPJZ9REvmZ52R6gQ06JUeAVdjcMpa2P6lzb1ph38A&s=3y2WfQEzyre5fpG59piEwoLqbMaTWgr9XraAGli38TQ&e=
  George Kirikos:Recall (as pointed out in the comments to that blog post) all the fear-mongering about the .biz TLD raised by the Bank for International Settlements.
  George Kirikos:Too much FUD created by IGOs.
  George Kirikos:We can use the small group proposal, perhaps?
  George Kirikos:Other mailing list, with IGOs: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/discussion-igo-rc/2017-May/date.html
  Steve Chan:@Petter, I tried to adjust the action item to take into account your comments just now. Please let know if I've not captured it correctly.
  Steve Chan:Nothing from me Petter, thanks
  Osvaldo Novoa:Thank you and Bye
  George Kirikos:Bye folks!
  Paul Tattersfield:thanks Petter, All, bye
  Jay Chapman:Thanks, all

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