<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</head>
<body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Dear All,</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Please find the MP3 recording for IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Wednesday,</div>
<div><font style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">10 June 2015 at 1600 UTC at: </font><a href="http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03ZqpsvAYdkMhrgWmNqMrAAh1K9Bx60Ig4Rn4i8MLteTtNC-2BnKISwgKHxY8kup4i3VODRe4-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzm0xVOlKz4fo1Xk-2BVoH8HKfirrj-2BVPWuCXbRY4H-2F2EhHdVlqE3rJBUEEiierjR6TmM50GFu3bb1UQuBoVrg79YCa0AkdSP3GfW4BRvV7ufcmLb-2BhwBCncHpjNWCpl7nfmoRjry9AxwsWYBGrZOqI61TzLGhtDI6zQ1gkhkepWGaBggJyv9BPtupltHDHKmmrE-2FhgL07snTNPAPCbMJJ87EO4zaVFO6dV7VN8Uq2CqceriLJzkoDeI9Gfvn6v8rcIRaiHLnkWTPllkX6ZxB3Ow3lWL7LxXWdcXz80ioH0AHYR" style="line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-access-10jun15-en.mp3</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">On page:</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar"></a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#apr"></a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may"></a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jun">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#</a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may"></a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jun">j</a><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jun">un</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/">http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/</a></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Attendees: </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">George Kirikos - Individual</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Petter Rindforth – IPC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Phil Corwin – BC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Val Sherman - IPC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Jim Bikoff – IPC</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Paul Tattersfield - Individual</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Osvaldo Novoa - NCUC</div>
</div>
</span><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>Mason Cole – RySG</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Kathy Kleiman - NCUC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Lori Schulman – IPC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Rudi Vansnick – NPOC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Poncelet Illeleji - NPOC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>Apologies:</div>
<div>Mike Rodenbaugh</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>ICANN staff:</div>
<div>Mary Wong</div>
<div>Steve Chan</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</span>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Julia Charvolen</div>
</div>
</span><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>Nathalie Peregrine</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">Mailing list archives:<a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/</a></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">Wiki page: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/97rhAg">https://community.icann.org/x/97rhAg</a></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">Thank you.</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">Kind regards,</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">Nathalie</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;">-------------------------------</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"></div>
<div style="font-size: 14px;"><b>Adobe Connect chat transcript for Wednesday, 10 June 2015:</b></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<div style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: Consolas;"> </span>Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting on the 10 June 2015</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Hello.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:I noticed Charvolen.com is unregistered. Julia should grab it.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:At under $15/yr, it's a no-brainer.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Although, I was unsuccessful in convincing Petter to get his surname .com. :)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Julia Charvolen::)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Petter Rindforth:Well, at least it is a registered trademark :-)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Nathalie Peregrine:Rudi Vansnick has joined the call</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Nathalie Peregrine:Osvaldo Novoa has also joined</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Hello Osvaldo!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Welcome also to Rudi</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:thanks ... hello all</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:joining here as NPOC member</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy:Hi All, sorry to be a little late</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:The mailing list lags a bit, so if Jim emailed, it might take an hour to appear to members.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:i've been reading through the document and from a point of view of iNGO's (NPOC => NGOs) i do not see any objection to the letter</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:I am on. Thanks.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:would this also apply to INGO's ?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:No, we've stopped talking about INGOs.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:passcode?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:"IGO" for phonecall.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:@Lori, IGO</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:got it.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:1-866-692-5726 for US/Canada callers.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:I used CRP. Slow day.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:@Rudy - immunity issues do not appy to NGO's they are governed by different legal structures</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:@Lori : thanks for clarification</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:@Lori : could it be that an IGO can overrule a decision on an INGO ?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:IGOs aren't forced to use the UDRP. It's a voluntary tool for them. They could still use whatever tools the law allows.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Petter Rindforth:As everybody else</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:So, the IGOs still have the benefit of whatever the existing law is, in terms of enforcement mechanisms. If they opt not to use that extra tool (with the rights/obligations that tool entails), they're not prejudiced
in any way.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:@ Rudy - short answer -- no.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:@George: in some countries laws are to weak to protect their rights ... so i would consider the UDRP being a real good solution</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Just like copyright holders can't use the UDRP -- they're not prejudiced by not being able to use the UDRP, for their legal scenarios.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Like anyone else, an IGO that seeks redress in a national court would have to see which rights under that national law may have been allegedly infringed, e.g. they may need to have a national TM right in that country.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Yes, Mary. So, the UDRP isn't meant to grant rightsholders more relief than national laws permit.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:So, if they couldn't find relief in the national courts, the UDRP should not be providing *more* relief.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Yes, it is an optional alternative to litigation for any complainant (whether an IGO or not).</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:i.e. a procedure that allows enforcement of an exisitng legal right, not a new or additional one.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Right. UDRP is intended to be a short-cut to get the same relief they'd have received in courts.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:There are all kinds of injustices in the world that the courts don't handle. It's not our job to handle every injustice in the world.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Petter Rindforth:And the UDRP is also meant for "easy" disputes, where there is no need to meet the parties, to make further investigations or for the Panel to make legal conclusions from business agreements, etc</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:I think a clean version of Paul's document will be much shorter (right now it appears long, due to the visible edits).</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Right, Petter.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy:I like the vast majority of Paul's changes. What I don't understand is his deletion of Question 2, which I thought was valuable: 2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;">
</span>To the best of your knowledge, how do IGOs handle standard contractual clauses (e.g. in software or services agreements) concerning submission to a particular jurisdiction? Is it common practice, for example, for IGOs to insist on binding arbitration
instead?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Kathy: it's still there, see #4.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Petter Rindforth:@Kathy: I agree with that</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:(just moved down a bit)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:(we're on page 6 of the PDF)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy:@George, tx!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Thanks, Phil</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:I was thinking maybe we could say "rights in source identifiers"</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:We can't (for purposes of this PDP) assume that all qualifying IGOs (under 6ter) would have national TMs, though.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:@Lori, that may be better</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Just like they submit to a jurisdiction when they register a domain name!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:(every registrar agreement)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Except for maybe .int domains. :-)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Petter Rindforth:And trademarks for the UDRP does not have to be registered, that may "only" be well-known</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:June 30</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:Yes, common law rights are recognized in UDRP</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Should ICANN issue a public RFP, so we can get applications for this?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:(that would also publicize things in a more formal manner)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:That was my question, how do we find these people?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:@George, we can check but I'm not sure this is how we normally deal with this sort of treques</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:I have a colleague who is an expert in international law and arbitration. He is semiretired</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Thanks Mary and Phil.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:@Lori, I have been reaching out to law professors</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:I was going to offer to reach out</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:@Lori, I'll touch base with you after this?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:OK</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:I am back on the phone.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:+1 Jim</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Petter Rindforth:Making it easy for us ;-)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy:And reminder of the concern of the request for a permanent TM notification...</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy:by the IGOs</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Thanks, Jim ... :)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:I think we can draw adverse inferences from their lack of responses.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:I agree. The silence is deafening.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:It's like a witness asked a "hard" question in a cross-examination, and refusing to answer.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy:Tx Phil, Tx Petter, tx All!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:i.e. the true facts in their control, which would answer our questions, are unfavourable to their position, so they'd rather not provide those facts.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> George Kirikos:Have a nice day, everyone. Bye.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Rudi Vansnick:bye have a nice day, see you in BA</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Lori Schulman:Hasta La Vista!</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div style="font-size: 14px;">
<div style="font-size: medium;">
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span>
</body>
</html>