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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Please find the attendance and MP3 recording for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">on Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 16:00 UTC at:
<a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-access-14jul16-en.mp3">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-access-14jul16-en.mp3</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:16.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">On page:
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jul">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jul</a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov"><span style="text-decoration:none">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</span></a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Attendees:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">David Maher - PIR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">George Kirikos - Individual<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Petter Rindforth - IPC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Phil Corwin - BC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Jay Chapman – Individual<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Osvaldo Nova – ISPCP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul Keating – NCUC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Holly Lance – IPC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;background:white">Keith Drazek – RySG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:15.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Jim Bikoff - IPC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;background:white">Guest Speakers:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Jon Passaro (OECD)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">David Satola (World Bank)</span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Apologies:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Lori Schulman - IPC</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">ICANN staff:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Mary Wong<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Steve Chan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">David Tait<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Terri Agnew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Mailing list archives:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/</a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Wiki page:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg">https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg</a><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Terri Agnew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Adobe Connect chat transcript for
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thursday, 14 July 2016</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Terri Agnew: Dear all, welcome to the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting on the Thursday, 14 July 2016 at 16:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Terri Agnew:wiki agenda page: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/6AObAw">
https://community.icann.org/x/6AObAw</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Osvaldo Novoa:Hello, it seems I am a bit early<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Petter Rindforth:Hi, you are perfectly on time (2 min's left)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:@Phil, I see you found a spot to get on AC and the call too!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Philip Corwin:Yes. hello all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:@Petter, let us know when you'd like us to begin the call.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Petter Rindforth:waiting to get online...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Hi folks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:No one is picking up at the telephone bridge.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:2 mins on hold...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:Apologies for the delay; we have asked the operator to check.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Still can't get to an operator.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Usually they're good at picking up within 10 secs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:I'm in.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:I sent a quick email to the list re: the IGO letter.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jon Passaro (OECD):Thanks for having us.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Terri Agnew:Welcome Jay Chapman<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jay Chapman:Hi Terri - thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Good points, Petter. The Supreme Court of Canada decision reinforced that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Philip Corwin:Noting for record that Mr. Passaro and Mr. Satola are guests of the WG today in order to orally present their views on the Swaine memo. They, as well as other IGO representatives, are of course welcome to become members
of the WG at any time, even at this late stage of our proceedings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2016/2016scc15/2016scc15.html<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Paragraph 59 explicitly compared one treaty (for World Bank) from a different treaty in a different Supreme Court of Canada case involving Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:I'd like to point out another case I found, where diplomatic immunity was waived in a drunk driving case.
<a href="http://www.thelocal.ch/20130604/french-arrest-swiss-ambassador-for-drunk-driving">
http://www.thelocal.ch/20130604/french-arrest-swiss-ambassador-for-drunk-driving</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jay Chapman:Good points, Phil<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:Four possible options were identified by Prof Swaine in his memo for the WG to consider as part of its deliberations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:That was a diplomat from the OECD. So, immunity is routinely waived, even by the OECD.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:There may, of course, also be others - presumably this WG will begin considering all identified options in the phase of our discussions that we're beginning to embark on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:The same story, by Reuters <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-diplomat-idUSBRE9530JA20130604">
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-diplomat-idUSBRE9530JA20130604</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Philip Corwin:Agree that we should discuss all proposed options as we prepare to adopt final recommendationsand issue report.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:A reminder that the World Bank expressly waived immunity and was successful via the UDRP itself. I'm puzzled as to why they now feel differently, given their past decision. It seems to me that the UDRP worked for them.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:(David Satola is from the World Bank)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Paul Kea:@Petter, what does this case have to do with a UDRP in which teh IGO itself is a party:?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:The Supreme Court of Canada did find that they *could* waive that immunity over their archives (but had not expressly done so). See my email sent to the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:@George, based on the current discussion, I suppose the issue at hand is that by submitting to Mutual Jurisdiction by filing a complaint, an IGO would almost certainly - and routinely - waive any immunity to which it might
otherwise be entitled.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:+1 Petter. It would be nice to have an exact list of domain names that the IGOs feel are "open to dispute", that they UDRP isn't allowing them to challenge.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:e.g. maybe the World Bank covets WB.com (owned by Warner Brothers), and feels that they'd have better luck in an arbitration, rather than in national courts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Terri Agnew:James Bikoff has joined on audio<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:@Mary: It would not be entitled to immunity had it brought the case in courts, instead of using the UDRP in the first place.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Cost is an issue for *every* complainant. I think the budget of the World Bank, OECD, etc. far exceeds that of many other prospective complainants have....why should this PDP be more sympathetic?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jon Passaro (OECD):Can everyone hear me?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:*6 to unmute.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jon Passaro (OECD):Hold on I will dial in via audio bridge<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jon Passaro (OECD):Sorry everyone I am dialing in via th audio bridge<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Rarely and exceptionally? We've counted numerous examples of that waiver.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:(at least 3 by the World Bank itself)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:I don't agree that the Jan 15 statements are correct, given counterexamples have been provided to demonstrate that they're not correct.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:(January 2015)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Paul Kea:@Phil, Can you ask if the current UDRP Mutual Jurisdiction would work if it wasa ccompanied by a corresponding waiver by the Respondent of a right to recover damages. This would not be an obligation but would give the IGO
the ability to terminate the UDRP.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Can we also ask about the workaround via assignment? (the UNITAID example, footnote 97, page 26 of Swaine Report)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:@Paul, we will note your question/suggestion as one option that can be discussed, on top of the ones already noted in the Swaine memo (such as the one George has just highlighted).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Thanks Mary.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:+1 Phil. It's a broad statement, i.e. "we reserve to dispute findings that don't agree with us" :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:They *do* waive their immunity, all the time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Every ICANN Registrar agreement indeed specifies a jurisdiction for disputes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Philip Corwin:WE expect to have at least a preliminary report and recommendations out for comment before ICANN57 in November, so we are looking at three months to get there.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Mary has her hand up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jon Passaro (OECD):Thank you again for having us<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Philip Corwin:Thanks for joining us<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jay Chapman:Thanks for attending, Jon & David<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> David Satola:Thanks also to the Working Group for having us. I'll be signing off now.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:2nd option includes things like greater education on how IGOs can use the current UDRP.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:(e.g like UNITAID, via assignment, etc.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:"Temporary" measures should have had a sunset clause.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Otherwise, they become permanent due to inertia.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> George Kirikos:Bye folks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Jay Chapman:Thanks, all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Paul Keating:thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Mary Wong:Thanks Petter, Phil, all!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Osvaldo Novoa:Thank you, bye<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> Philip Corwin:Bye all<o:p></o:p></p>
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