<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div>Peter,</div><div><br></div><div>I do wish to point out that the UDRP was not intended to create rights that did not exist prior to the UDRP. This is in the founding WIPO report that was adopted by ICANN with a great deal of grandeur. The 1999 Report also stated as a foundational position that respondents were to retain their day in court.</div><div><br></div><div>NGOs existed prior to the UDRP. Prior to the UDRP the only means by which they could enforce rights as against a domain name registrant was to commence litigation (either directly or indirectly via a stalking horse/assignee, etc). Pre-UDRP there was no basis for forcing the respondent into any form of arbitration.</div><div><br></div><div>The UDRP was thoughtfully created to grant the right to litigate de novo. The Policy references such litigation in several places and the consent to Mutual Jurisdiction is expressly limited to the dispute concerning the domain name. From this several sound legal principles have arisen.</div><div><br></div><div>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Policy 4(k) does not itself create an independent right of action. A losing respondent must still find a statutory basis upon which to rest its claim. This has been recognized in virtually all post-UDRP cases including those in the UK (note the Yoyo decision among others).</div><div><br></div><div>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The Mutual Jurisdiction certification does not extend beyond the reversal of the UDRP decision. The certification does not itself grant personal jurisdiction over the Complainant (now defendant) for any other form of claim. This precludes the awarding of monetary damages other than costs unless there is an independent claim to base it upon or the court has personal jurisdiction over the Complainant/defendant independently of the MJ certification.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>By creating an independent arbitration process for NGOs you are (a) contradicting not one but at least two of founding principles of the UDRP.</div><div><br></div><div>With all respect, I have yet to see any argument in favor of the positions currently being promoted by the Chairs – other than (a) the Board/GAC/IGOs want it that way.</div><div><br></div><div>And, now that George has surfaced an actual study comparing tech costs of arbitration to traditional litigation, there seems absolutely no credible reason to continue to support the private arbitration suggestions.</div><div><br></div><div>I invite ANYONE to provide evidence to the contrary. And by evidence I mean that – not assumptions or beliefs but facts.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you,</div><div><br></div><div><div><div style="font-size: medium; font-family: Calibri; "><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Paul Raynor Keating, Esq.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a href="http://law.es/" style="color: purple; ">Law.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Tel. +34 93 368 0247 (Spain)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Tel. +44.7531.400.177 (UK)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Tel. +1.415.937.0846 (US)</span></b></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Fax. (Europe) +34 93 396 0810<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Fax. (US)(415) 358.4450<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Skype: Prk-Spain<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">email: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: blue; "><a href="mailto:Paul@law.es" style="color: purple; ">Paul@law.es</a></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION SUBJECT TO THE ATTORNEY/CLIENT OR WORK-PRODUCT PRIVILEGE. 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IN THE ABSENCE OF SUCH AN AGREEMENT, NOTHING CONTAINED HEREIN SHALL CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org">gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Petter Rindforth <<a href="mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu">petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> <<a href="mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu">petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Saturday, November 18, 2017 at 12:22 AM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com">icann@leap.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Consolidated results of informal poll constituting preliminary consensus call on Options A-C<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"><div>Dear George,<br></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family: Verdana;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></span></p><div>I think you have made it continuously clear that you
are in favour of Option A. And, as a WG member, you are of course free to explain
why you voted for Option A.<br></div><div><br></div><div>However, the fact is that we not just only have a clear majority
support for Option C (9 supports and 2 that can live with it), compared to
Option A (5 supports and 1 that can live with it), it is also clear that there
is a majority against Option A (8 does not support), compared to Option C (3
does not support).<br></div><div><br></div><div>This is not just Philip’s and mine arguments, it is the
pure fact. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I can fully understand that, as in all voting cases,
it may sometimes be hard to understand why a majority has other thoughts about
a specific topic. <br></div><div><br></div><div>And all WG members had (and have) their freedom to
further explain and argue their support for a specific solution/option. As you
say George, sometimes a support for one specified option needs more detailed
explanation, where other options may be more clear, "fair and balanced".<br></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family: Verdana;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></span></p><div> <br></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family: Verdana;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></span></p><div>As to Option 6: As you may recall, you have made the
presentation during our WG meetings, and we (the full WG) have discussed it. As
you also may recall, the conclusion within our WG meetings was that not all
courts would accept that, independently of what the parties have agreed upon. During
last call, we invited you to - during the upcoming week – provide us (the WG) with your
suggestion on your proposed specific solution to be added to the current
description of the arbitration option for consideration by the WG. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I therefore look forward your specific wording /
suggestion on that topic.<br></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family: Verdana;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></span></p><div> <br></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family: Verdana;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></span></p><div>All the best,<br></div><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="font" style="font-family: Verdana;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></span></p><div>Petter<br></div><p></p><div><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">-- </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Petter Rindforth, LL M </span></span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:49D61470-C55F-44F0-AA45-8F4196542C10" width="150" height="41.53"><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Fenix Legal KB </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Stureplan 4c, 4tr </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">114 35 Stockholm </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Sweden </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">E-mail: <a href="mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu">petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu</a> </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">www.fenixlegal.eu </span></span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">NOTICE </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu </span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Open Sans", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Thank you</span></span></span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>17 november 2017 20:16:33 +01:00, skrev George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com">icann@leap.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="oneComWebmail-mail"><div class="oneComWebmail-body"><div>I think the comments within this survey are quite telling. Those who<br></div><div>are in favour of option A (and opposing option C) have very strong and<br></div><div>fully considered views, which they can explain and support with facts<br></div><div>and reasoning. Compare that to those expressing support for C (and<br></div><div>opposing A/B). They make statements like:<br></div><div><br></div><div>"Fair and balanced" (supporting C)<br></div><div>"DOA at Council" (opposing A)<br></div><div><br></div><div>bereft of credible reasoning.<br></div><div><br></div><div>This demonstrates that it's fear-mongering by the co-chairs and<br></div><div>political motivations that led some to switch from Option 1 (now<br></div><div>Option A) to Option C (formerly Option 2), rather than anything based<br></div><div>on new facts or new analysis. Given this, it explains the refusal by<br></div><div>the co-chairs to attach names to those who are supporting Option C --<br></div><div>there's no expectation of privacy here --- everyone must vote publicly<br></div><div>when it comes down to a final consensus call, and should have been<br></div><div>able to publicly explain why they supported Option C in this<br></div><div>preliminary survey.<br></div><div><br></div><div>In the book "Principles" by Ray Dalio that I'm reading, he writes<br></div><div>about how decisions at Bridgewater go through what's called<br></div><div>"believability-weighted decision making", see some discussion of that<br></div><div>at:<br></div><div><br></div><div><a target="_blank" href="http://www.businessinsider.com/bridgewater-ray-dalio-legacy-2017-9">http://www.businessinsider.com/bridgewater-ray-dalio-legacy-2017-9</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think that is a wise approach, whereby votes that are backed by<br></div><div>sound logic, facts, experience, and reasoning should be weighted much<br></div><div>higher than votes that lack those attributes and which are instead<br></div><div>fear-driven and thus are not believable.<br></div><div><br></div><div>It's been said that "One man with courage makes a majority." Hopefully<br></div><div>it does not have to come to that.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely,<br></div><div><br></div><div>George Kirikos<br></div><div>416-588-0269<br></div><div><a target="_blank" href="http://www.leap.com/">http://www.leap.com/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Mary Wong <<a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote><div>Dear all,<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>As noted on the Working Group call yesterday, please find attached the<br></div><div>consolidated results of the informal poll that was conducted regarding<br></div><div>Working Group member preferences as among Options A, B and C.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Individual Working Group members – especially those who provided specific<br></div><div>comments as part of their poll response – are invited to add any relevant<br></div><div>background and further thoughts to this email.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks and cheers<br></div><div><br></div><div>Mary<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list<br></div><div><a href="mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org">Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a><br></div><div><a target="_blank" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp</a><br></div></blockquote><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list<br></div><div><a href="mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org">Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a><br></div><div><a target="_blank" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp</a><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>
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