<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div>Paul and others,,</div><div><br></div><div>I am sorry for being largely offline the past few weeks but an injury has taken me out of work mode. I am now back only insofar as I can now type for a few hours daily.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I agree with your comments regarding waiver of immunity and agree with you up to the point where you suggest we delve into creating parallel systems. </div><div><br></div><div>I am in favor of mediation process as a precursor to the UDRP – I have been happy with the Nominet system as previously disclosed in this group. The only concern I raised with the Nominet system is that it allows Complainants to test the waters at the mediation stage which requires a formal response by the Respondent as a precondition. I have had several instances where the complainant has chosen to withdraw during mediation, leaving the Respondent in a position of having spent money with no conclusive determination as to the underlying claims. This leaves the Complainant to try again in the future. For this reason I have suggested that in such case either (a) the complainant forfeits its fee to the Respondent, or (b) the Respondent is free to insist that the uDRP continue to formal conclusion.</div><div><br></div><div>As to an arbitration process, there is no need and am completely opposed to it (as well as #3). Private arbitration systems already exist and all that is required is for then parties to agree to them as an alternative to the UDRP process. Inserting a new process into the UDRP is untenable at this stage as it would require that we create an entire set of rules surrounding the arbitration process. This is more appropriately within the scope of the other WG already dealing with substantive URS/UDRP related issues.</div><div><br></div><div>For this reason I continue to support option #4. If option #4 is unacceptable for some reason then I support only the option that resulted in the voiding of the UDRP decision should the NGO assert immunity in any post-UDRP proceedings.</div><div><br></div><div>I strongly suggest that this WG get moving on producing the report that is consistent with the consensus (which as I see it strongly favors #4 and disfavors the others, particularly #3).</div><div><br></div><div><div><div style="font-size: medium; font-family: Calibri; "><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Paul Raynor Keating, Esq.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a href="http://law.es/" style="color: purple; ">Law.es</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Tel. +34 93 368 0247 (Spain)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Tel. +44.7531.400.177 (UK)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Tel. +1.415.937.0846 (US)</span></b></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Fax. (Europe) +34 93 396 0810<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Fax. (US)(415) 358.4450<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Skype: Prk-Spain<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">email: </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: blue; "><a href="mailto:Paul@law.es" style="color: purple; ">Paul@law.es</a></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION SUBJECT TO THE ATTORNEY/CLIENT OR WORK-PRODUCT PRIVILEGE. 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IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, NO WAIVER OF PRIVILEGE IS MADE OR INTENDED AND YOU ARE REQUESTED TO PLEASE DELETE THE EMAIL AND ANY ATTACHMENTS. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Circular 230 Disclosure: To assure compliance with Treasury Department rules governing tax practice, we hereby inform you that any advice contained herein (including in any attachment) (1) was not written or intended to be used, and cannot be used, by you or any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding any penalties that may be imposed on you or any taxpayer and (2) may not be used or referred to by you or any other person in connection with promoting, marketing or recommending to another person any transaction or matter addressed herein.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">NOTHING CONTAINED IN THIS EMAIL SHALL CONSTITUTE THE FORMATION OF AN ATTORNEY/CLIENT RELATIONSHIP; SUCH A RELATIONSHIP MAY BE FORMED WITH THIS FIRM AND ATTORNEY ONLY BY SEPARATE FORMAL WRITTEN ENGAGEMENT AGREEMENT, WHICH THIS IS NOT. IN THE ABSENCE OF SUCH AN AGREEMENT, NOTHING CONTAINED HEREIN SHALL CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org">gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 1:37 AM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Mary Wong <<a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a href="mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar">Donna.Austin@team.neustar</a>" <<a href="mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar">Donna.Austin@team.neustar</a>>, "<a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com">haforrestesq@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com">haforrestesq@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Question about Professor Swaine's memo<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">Dear Mary & Steve,</span><br><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB"></span><p class="gmail-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">Absent UDRP
there are two possible ways the immunity question could come before a
court:<br><br>(a) A TM owner seeks to acquire a domain which an IGO has
registered<br>(b) An IGO seeks to acquire a domain which a domain registrant has
registered<br><br>In (a) the IGO would be entitled to raise an immunity
defence<br>In (b) the IGO would be required to waive immunity for the court to
consider the matter.<br><br></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">As the UDRP is an
administrative procedure to help take less complex cases out of the judicial
system if UDRP is to afford the same protections as any other forum then UDRP
needs to take into account both cases.<br><br>(</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">a) A TM owner seeks to
acquire a domain which an IGO has registered by bringing a UDRP<br>(b) An IGO
seeks to acquire a domain which a domain registrant has registered by bringing a
UDRP</span></p><p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="gmail-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">The working group has
not looked at (a) which hides the fact that in (b) the IGO is never entitled to
immunity under any circumstances after initiating an action.<br><br><br></span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">Before
you can even begin to look at the soundness or otherwise of Professor.Swaine's
reasoning you need to answer the threshold question I posed namely:<br></span></span><i><br>"<span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB"></span>Show
me examples of where an IGO is entitled to immunity after initiating
proceedings. In either the initial proceedings or any follow-on
proceedings?<br> Any jurisdiction will do, any matter will do......"</i><br></p><p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="gmail-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">To which one of co-chair's has now replied </span><br>“<i>If
it is judicial proceedings them [sic] of course an IGO's initiation of
process indicates an implicit waiver of judicial immunity</i>.”<br></p><p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="gmail-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">Quite
simply the IGO's are NEVER entitled to jurisdictional immunity if they
choose to initiate proceedings. . Sure the IGO's have legal defences
available to them if someone is abusing their name but jurisdictional
immunity isn't one of them. S</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:navy;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">o a report on immunity can never be relevant</span> and should be removed.<br><br><br>The
2 co-chairs preferred option #3 also needs to be ditched, there is
little support for it anyway (only 1 other active working group member
supports it) I would guess had the numbers been reversed then victory
would have been claimed and we would be well on the way to creating an
incredibly flawed final report. <br><br>The Council, the Board, the GAC
and the IGOs are not stupid they are not going to fall for some slight
of hand pretence arbitration mechanism that will most likely never be
used and that only continues to exist because it hides behind the
complexity of an irrelevant expert’s report. The co-chairs need to save
wasting everyone's time and graciously agree to withdraw option #3.<br><br><br>We have a unique opportunity to improve process for everyone: I respectfully suggest<br><br>(1) Free private mediation <br>(2) A separate parallel arbitration track that registrants are free to choose use if they do not want to go the judicial route.<br><br>There
shouldn’t be anything in either of those two proposals that is in the
slightest bit contentious for any stakeholder - it really is a win-win.
The only question is Is the working group prepared to come together to
make it happen for IGOs or do we just delay ICANN fashion until the RPM
working group gets around to looking at it in a few years time for all
disputes not just those initiated by IGOs?<br><br>The IGO’s have asked for help now – I say let’s help them. <br><br>Yours sincerely,<br><br><br>Paul</span></p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:51 PM, Mary Wong <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org" target="_blank">mary.wong@icann.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_9070087877629774504WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Paul and everyone,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Staff is taking the liberty here of addressing your specific question about Professor Swaine’s memo, including your concern that it may have analyzed a situation where it is not the IGO that commences proceedings but rather is the subject
of proceedings against it by a trademark owner. We hope the following extracts from the memo will be useful in clarifying the basis on which Professor Swaine gave his opinion.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_9070087877629774504MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">In his memo, Professor Swaine notes that he
<i>“focuses on the most likely scenario: that in which an IGO, possessing rights in a name, abbreviation, emblem or the like arising under the Paris Convention … has complained and prevailed before an administrative panel in Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution
Policy (“Policy” or “UDRP”) proceedings against a domain-name registrant—resulting in an order of cancellation or transfer to which the losing registrant objects by commencing a judicial action … “</i> (see Page 77 of the Working Group’s Initial Report, at
Annex G).<u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_9070087877629774504MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">He notes that
<i>“how matters unfold from that point [following the registrant’s filing suit] will depend on national law”</i> (Page 81, Annex G) as to the question, “<i>whether—in light of an IGO’s assent to Mutual Jurisdiction—its immunity remains. Here, the more likely
answer is that it would not … The grant of Mutual Jurisdiction would likely establish such a waiver, as it would for a state entity otherwise entitled to foreign sovereign immunity. This waiver would be construed narrowly, but it would likely permit proceeding
against an IGO in at least some domestic courts. The overall answer, then, is contingent. If there were no Mutual Jurisdiction clause, an IGO might be entitled to immunity from judicial process; in the status quo, however, it likely would not. Equitable
considerations might influence any judicial analysis” </i>(Page 78, Annex G).<i><u></u><u></u></i></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_9070087877629774504MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">Concluding that “<i>In short, the Mutual Jurisdiction clause means that participating IGOs will have agreed to the possibility of a judicial process, notwithstanding any immunity to
which they otherwise would be entitled. This will loom largest in cases in which the IGO is the complainant and benefited from an initial panel decision in its favor, such that the decision to resort to judicial proceedings against the IGO—and the risks that
creates for adverse results—is made by the private party”</i> (Page 82, Annex G), Professor Swaine focuses the remainder of his memo on this scenario.<u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc"><li class="m_9070087877629774504MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in">As part of his analysis, Professor Swaine also proposed a number of alternative policy proposals for the Working Group’s consideration, including possibly amending the Mutual Jurisdiction
clause or arbitration. These were noted and discussed on several Working Group calls in late 2016, prior to the issuance of the Initial Report in January 2017.<u></u><u></u></li></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">While the above summary cannot reflect the entirety or depth of Professor Swaine’s advice, staff thought it might be helpful to recall these points given the question raised by Paul. The full memo was attached to the Initial Report as Annex
G: <a href="https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/igo-ingo-crp-access-initial-19jan17-en.pdf" target="_blank">
https://gnso.icann.org/sites/<wbr>default/files/file/field-file-<wbr>attach/igo-ingo-crp-access-<wbr>initial-19jan17-en.pdf</a>.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks and cheers<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Mary & Steve <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 10:49<br><b>To: </b>"Corwin, Philip" <<a href="mailto:pcorwin@verisign.com" target="_blank">pcorwin@verisign.com</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com" target="_blank">haforrestesq@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com" target="_blank">haforrestesq@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar">Donna.Austin@team.neustar</a>" <<a href="mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar">Donna.Austin@team.neustar</a>>, "<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" target="_blank">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" target="_blank">rafik.dammak@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] GNSO Council Liaison Summary Report (Re: IGO-INGO Curative Rights Policy Development Process Working Group)<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_9070087877629774504__MailOriginalBody">Dear Philip,<br><br>
In your reply to George Kirikos you stated:<br><br>
“If it is judicial proceedings them [sic] of course an IGO's initiation of process indicates an implicit waiver of judicial immunity.”<br><br>
Thank you that is helpful. <br><br>
When I asked last year that the working group consider cases where an IGO could be entitled to immunity (i.e. when a TM holder seeks to secure a domain name owned by an IGO) I was told by those leading the working group that this scenario was not within the
working group’s charter.<br><br>
Swaine is an analysis of cases where an IGO is entitled to jurisdictional immunity in judicial forums. Given you have just stated:
<br><br>
“If it is judicial proceedings them [sic] of course an IGO's initiation of process indicates an implicit waiver of judicial immunity.”<br><br>
I fail to see how you can ever reconcile Swaine with ever being relevant to the working group’s final report. I don’t doubt it was expensive and interesting but if you want it to remain in the final report please can you reply showing how it could be in any
way considered relevant?<br><br>
Yours sincerely,<br><br><br>
Paul<u></u><u></u></a></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 3:57 PM, Corwin, Philip <</span><a href="mailto:pcorwin@verisign.com" target="_blank"><span>pcorwin@verisign.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><a name="m_9070087877629774504_m_-5601499089594127668__MailEndCompose">Paul:</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Responding in an individual capacity -- Professor Swaine’s memo is an excellent explanation of the accepted scope of IGO judicial immunity
and the varied analytical approaches that national courts take in determining the validity of IGO immunity defenses. I remain proud that we solicited this expert input on the central legal issue before the WG, and appreciative that ICANN funded the research.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>I am sure it will be of substantial assistance to whatever decisional body determines how best to resolve the inherent conflict between
statutory rights of domain registrants and the desire of IGOs to have a means of addressing cybersquatting that does not require full surrender of valid claims to judicial immunity as a condition of bringing an action.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Philip
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Philip S. Corwin</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Policy Counsel</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">VeriSign, Inc.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D12061-2BBluemont-2BWay-2B-250D-250AReston-2C-2BVA-2B20190-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=CoaOz-PewsfP8inMwD1N5msXqqp7rInZbzZOhQAWtCc&e=" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN">12061
Bluemont Way[maps.google.com]</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN"><br>
Reston, VA 20190</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">703-948-4648/Direct</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">571-342-7489/Cell</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><i><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><b>From:</b> Paul Tattersfield [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>gpmgroup@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 19, 2018 7:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> Corwin, Philip <</span><a href="mailto:pcorwin@verisign.com" target="_blank"><span>pcorwin@verisign.com</span><span></span></a><span>><br><b>Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank"><span>icann@leap.com</span><span></span></a><span>; <a href="mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar">Donna.Austin@team.neustar</a>;
</span><a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>haforrestesq@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>;
</span><a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>;
</span><a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>rafik.dammak@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><br><b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] GNSO Council Liaison Summary Report (Re: IGO-INGO Curative Rights Policy Development Process Working Group)<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>Dear Philip,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>OK lets settle this once and for all:
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Show me examples of where an IGO is entitled to immunity after initiating proceedings. In either the initial proceedings or any follow-on
proceedings?<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>Any jurisdiction will do, any matter will do......
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>If you can not then Swaine is irrelevant to what the working group is considering.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>Yours sincerely,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Paul.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 1:18 PM, Corwin, Philip <</span><a href="mailto:pcorwin@verisign.com" target="_blank"><span>pcorwin@verisign.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><a name="m_9070087877629774504_m_-5601499089594127668_m_867115153476462">Paul:</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>For the record, and in regard to this –<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span>The co-chairs will not refute this reasoning but are not prepared to discuss it - this I find very troubling, not just on this single issue level but the fact that working group officers can block its discussion
for months and months on end.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>The discussion within the WG was not blocked by the co-chairs. It was blocked because George filed a section 3.7 Appeal at the point
in time when the co-chairs wished to initiate the consensus call process. The co-chairs later offered to rescind holding an anonymous poll of the full WG but George rejected that approach and continued his appeal. So far as I am aware you supported George
in these actions.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Other than speaking with Susan in their individual capacity as WG members the co-chairs had no control over the content of her report.
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Speaking only for myself, I do not agree with your characterization of the Swaine memo and believe it was highly relevant to the central
issue before the WG.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Philip<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Philip S. Corwin</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Policy Counsel</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">VeriSign, Inc.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D12061-2BBluemont-2BWay-2B-250D-250AReston-2C-2BVA-2B20190-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=CoaOz-PewsfP8inMwD1N5msXqqp7rInZbzZOhQAWtCc&e=" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN">12061
Bluemont Way[maps.google.com]</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN"><br>
Reston, VA 20190</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">703-948-4648/Direct</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">571-342-7489/Cell</span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><i><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span><b>From:</b> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp [mailto:</span><a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>gnso-igo-ingo-crp-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Tattersfield<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 19, 2018 5:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> George Kirikos <</span><a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank"><span>icann@leap.com</span><span></span></a><span>><br><b>Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:Donna.Austin@team.neustar" target="_blank"><span>Donna.Austin@team.neustar</span><span></span></a><span>;
Heather Forrest <</span><a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>haforrestesq@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>>;
</span><a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>;
</span><a href="mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>rafik.dammak@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span><br><b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] GNSO Council Liaison Summary Report (Re: IGO-INGO Curative Rights Policy Development Process Working Group)<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dear ICANN,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>I agree with George, unfortunately I will not be able to attend the call later today as I have another meeting half way across the country
which clashes with your call. I will listen to the call afterwards and submit any comments to the email list, sorry for any inconvenience. Please accept my apologies<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>Briefly, I would also like to point out:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>The IGO's have accepted the principle of coexistence and as they are initiating the proceedings they have no immunity rights whatsoever in
either the initial action or any follow on proceedings. This is an incredibly simple legal principle and I can not find ANY jurisdiction in the world on ANY matter not just domain names where an IGO would be entitled to do so.
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>The matter is only confused because the Swaine reasoning looked at the case where others are initiating an action against the IGOs i.e. a
trademark owner looking to seize an IGO's asset. Clearly the expert report is not relevant to the case the working group is considering where the IGO's are initiating proceedings.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>The co-chairs will not refute this reasoning but are not prepared to discuss it - this I find very troubling, not just on this single issue
level but the fact that working group officers can block its discussion for months and months on end. I also note with some dismay that only 2 people in the private office sessions said they were not prepared to accept any other option than option 3 - the
2 co-chairs preferred option.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>We have an opportunity in this working group to set an example to the RPM working group using any IGO cases to show how UDRP can be
easily improved for all parties in a way that does not tilt the balance in either side's favour but just improves process and reduces costs for all parties and meets the GAC's advice.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>It really is incredibly easy - Free private mediation and a separate (voluntary for registrants) arbitration track. If you want more
registrants to CHOOSE arbitration simply make it cheaper, faster and less risky (name only) than the judicial route. This could be sorted in a handful of meetings and no interest group has lost anything!<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span>Yours sincerely,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Paul.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><br><br><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span> <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 1:38 AM, George Kirikos <</span><a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank"><span>icann@leap.com</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hi folks,<br><br>
With regards to the Summary Report which is to be discussed tomorrow,<br>
there are several parts of it that I disagree with, which I'll discuss<br>
orally tomorrow during our call. However, some parts deserve a written<br>
response, given that they contain supporting links (and the WebEx<br>
interface really sucks, compared to Adobe Connect) so it's best to<br>
post them in advance of the call.<br><br>
1. On page 2, it's asserted that "the number of active participants is<br>
extremely low" (it's also repeated on page 3, i.e. "small number of<br>
participants' views"). However, that's not consistent with the facts.<br>
For example, the IRTP-D PDP, the most recently completed GNSO PDP<br>
according to:<br><br></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_inactive&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=2Pum4Md0vfHMKn5AUBAH3Z-j6dHKCuF_ZhREl6ZbzXU&e=" target="_blank"><span>https://gnso.icann.org/en/<wbr>group-activities/inactive[<wbr>gnso.icann.org]</span><span></span></a><span><br><br>
has its attendance logs at:<br><br></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_ITPIPDWG_Attendance-2BLog&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=SM46RS2yu2NqlCCV6jC_TqeffNSm5NO7Hrg2Z_zxdzw&e=" target="_blank"><span>https://community.icann.org/<wbr>display/ITPIPDWG/Attendance+<wbr>Log[community.icann.org]</span><span></span></a><span><br><br>
If one adds up the "total attended" column, and divide it by the total<br>
number of meetings, one obtains the average attendance per meeting:<br><br>
Sum of total attended column = 553<br>
Total meetings = 56<br>
Average = 9.88 per meeting<br><br>
It is of note that both the GNSO Council and the ICANN Board adopted<br>
their recommendations:<br><br></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_active_irtp-2Dd&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=j2Zvmixa4aRhzYenT-dnA022yco2l1JnPBILd7c6P2A&e=" target="_blank"><span>https://gnso.icann.org/en/<wbr>group-activities/active/irtp-<wbr>d[gnso.icann.org]</span><span></span></a><span><br><br>
Now, let's compare this to the IGO PDP and its attendance records:<br><br></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_gnsoicrpmpdp_Attendance-2BRecords&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=mwySLJqja9rtF5SFHTy4NbNmZuRg0TzTEP7xPbL3BMk&e=" target="_blank"><span>https://community.icann.org/<wbr>display/gnsoicrpmpdp/<wbr>Attendance+Records[community.<wbr>icann.org]</span><span></span></a><span><br><br>
Sum of total attended column = 711<br>
Total meetings = 71<br>
Average = 10.01 per meeting<br><br>
So, there has actually been HIGHER average attendance (10.01 vs 9.88<br>
per meeting) in this IGO PDP, compared to the IRTP-D whose work was<br>
successfully completed.<br><br>
2. On page 3, it's claimed that adoption of Option 4 "will require a<br>
Charter amendment" for that other PDP." I'm not convinced that that's<br>
a requirement. The RPM PDP charter is at:<br><br></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_RARPMRIAGPWG_WG-2BCharter-3Fpreview-3D3D_5872-3D9944_58730036_Charter-2520for-2520RPM-2520PDP-5Ffinal.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=ps70jf_1KqUAI3uRTbpQJ4U149wbZN0CHdG6lKySm40&e=" target="_blank"><span>https://community.icann.org/<wbr>display/RARPMRIAGPWG/WG+<wbr>Charter?preview=3D/5872=<br>
9944/58730036/Charter%20for%<wbr>20RPM%20PDP_final.pdf[<wbr>community.icann.org]</span><span></span></a><span><br><br>
and states on page 3 of the charter that:<br><br>
"(b) Coordination with Other Parallel Efforts<br>
In the course of its work, the Working Group should monitor the<br>
progress of and, where appropriate, coordinate with, other ICANN<br>
groups that are working on topics that may overlap with or<br>
***otherwise provide useful input to this PDP.***<br>
....<br>
In addition, the RPM PDP Working Group should also take into<br>
consideration the work/outcome of the TMCH Independent Review, the CCT<br>
Review, and ***any other relevant GNSO policy development***"<br><br>
(emphasis added)<br><br>
So, I think this situation was already covered by the RPM PDP's<br>
current charter, and doesn't need an amendment.<br><br>
As I mentioned earlier, there are other parts of the Summary Report I<br>
have concerns about, but I'll save them for tomorrow's call, as they<br>
don't require any links/quotes.<br><br>
Sincerely,<br><br>
George Kirikos<br>
416-588-0269<br></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=fHE_Cr9toYeLCsl-trxHT_K7CdrHZ4uAVUnv57xOoj8&s=V1eNh6UuyYEnssdELGy5BGrOMHYiXX7md_UYRrQBKek&e=" target="_blank"><span>http://www.leap.com/[leap.com]</span><span></span></a><span><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><br><br>
On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 11:36 AM, Mary Wong <</span><a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>mary.wong@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>>
wrote:<br>
> Dear all,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On behalf of Susan Kawaguchi, GNSO Council liaison to this PDP Working<br>
> Group, please find attached the summary report that Susan mentions in her 10<br>
> April email (below). You should already have received the calendar<br>
> invitation and call details for the next Working Group call, currently<br>
> scheduled for next Thursday 19 April at our usual time of 1600 UTC. Susan<br>
> will be on the call to discuss the report and proposed next steps with<br>
> everyone.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks and cheers<br>
><br>
> Mary & Steve<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> From: Susan Kawaguchi <</span><a href="mailto:susankpolicy@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>susankpolicy@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>><br>
> Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 12:26<br>
> To: "</span><a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>"
<</span><a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>><br>
> Cc: Heather Forrest <</span><a href="mailto:haforrestesq@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span>haforrestesq@gmail.com</span><span></span></a><span>>,
Mary Wong<br>
> <</span><a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>mary.wong@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>>, Steve Chan <</span><a href="mailto:steve.chan@icann.org" target="_blank"><span>steve.chan@icann.org</span><span></span></a><span>><br>
> Subject: [Ext] IGO-INGO Curative Rights Policy Development Process Working<br>
> Group<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Dear IGO-INGO Curative Rights Policy Development Process Working Group<br>
> members,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I write to update you, in my role as GNSO Council Liaison to this Working<br>
> Group, on the status of the WG member consultation process that was set out<br>
> in my email of 9 March 2018 and then actioned during ICANN61 and following.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> As envisaged in my email of 9 March, staff and I are preparing a report for<br>
> the Working Group on the input received at and since ICANN61, with<br>
> recommendations on next steps from me and Heather Forrest, the GNSO Chair.<br>
> We anticipate posting the report to the WG list at the end of this week, for<br>
> discussion at a WG meeting to be held at the group's usual time next<br>
> Thursday, 19 April. At that meeting, I will be happy to present a summary of<br>
> the report and its recommendations, and answer questions from WG members.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> An email from staff with call details will be circulated shortly. Bear in<br>
> mind that we do not have Adobe Connect, so alternate arrangements will be<br>
> made to support our call.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> In the meantime, I sincerely thank you for taking the time to provide me<br>
> with your feedback, which contributes to the substantial work of the group<br>
> on this challenging policy area.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Kind regards,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Susan Kawaguchi<br>
><br>
> Councilor for the Business Constituency<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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