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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Dear Chuck,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The terms you mention are, for the purposes of the Geneva Conventions,
explained in the first and third paragraphs of Article 53 of the First Geneva
Convention 1949, as follows:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: ; TEXT-ALIGN: left; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial"
size=2 face=Arial><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" color=#555555>”Art. 53. The use
by individuals, societies, firms or companies either public or private, other
than those entitled thereto under the present Convention, of the emblem or the
designation " Red Cross " or " Geneva Cross " or any sign or designation
constituting an imitation thereof, whatever the object of such use, and
irrespective of the date of its adoption, shall be prohibited at all
times.</FONT></FONT><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-ALIGN: left; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial">...<BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-ALIGN: left; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial"><FONT
color=#555555><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-ALIGN: left; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial"></FONT></FONT><FONT
style="FONT-FAMILY: ; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: ; TEXT-ALIGN: left; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial"
size=2 face=Arial><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" color=#555555>Nevertheless, such
High Contracting Parties as were not party to the Geneva Convention of 27 July
1929, may grant to prior users of the emblems, designations, signs or marks
designated in the first paragraph, a time limit not to exceed three years from
the coming into force of the present Convention to discontinue such use provided
that the said use shall not be such as would appear, in time of war, to confer
the protection of the Convention.”</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#555555 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#555555 face=Arial>So, the designation is the formal name of
the emblem, provided for it by the treaty. I hope this helps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#555555 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#555555 face=Arial>Chris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; FONT-FAMILY: arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-ALIGN: left; ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial"></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=consult@cgomes.com>Chuck</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 25, 2017 23:21</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=mary.wong@icann.org>'Mary Wong'</A> ; <A
title=gnso-igo-ingo@icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo@icann.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo] FOR INFORMATION: Notes on certain
points raisedduring the 17 August call of the reconvened Working Group onRed
Cross protections</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks Mary. I
have some questions for the legal experts, especially those familiar with
terminology used in international treaties.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>The following
terminology is used repeatedly in the applicable laws: “</SPAN>distinctive
emblems and their designations<SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>”. I understand
‘emblems’ to mean the actual symbols but what do ‘designations’ mean? In
other words, what is a designation of one of the emblems? One thing that
is confusing to me is that all the laws/treaties clearly protect the
emblems. How do they apply to the names themselves?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Chuck</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><A name=_MailEndCompose><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></A> </P><SPAN
style="mso-bookmark: _mailendcompose"></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>
gnso-igo-ingo-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-bounces@icann.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Mary Wong<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 23, 2017 2:52
PM<BR><B>To:</B> gnso-igo-ingo@icann.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Gnso-igo-ingo] FOR
INFORMATION: Notes on certain points raised during the 17 August call of the
reconvened Working Group on Red Cross
protections<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Dear
all,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Following from the
call last Thursday (17 August), staff has attempted to put together a summary of
the major questions and points (including the relevant text of the Geneva
Conventions cited) that were raised on the call. The summary is attached. If you
wish to provide comments or raise further questions, please do so directly in
the identical Google Doc version here: <A
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VftetlaXmEW1HqNVv3EYQi4x2VtKX6eja0VBizM1JAc/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VftetlaXmEW1HqNVv3EYQi4x2VtKX6eja0VBizM1JAc/edit?usp=sharing</A>.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Please note that the
summary was intentionally kept as brief as possible, so it does not go into
detail about the international law basis. This is further explored in the
submissions that were provided by the Red Cross representatives, and in Annex A
of the Briefing Document prepared for the facilitated discussions that took
place at ICANN58 in March this year (please refer to the wiki page for this
Working Group here for the links: <A
href="https://community.icann.org/x/-g8hB">https://community.icann.org/x/-g8hB</A>).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>We hope the summary
is helpful to your further deliberations.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks and
cheers<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Mary<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="COLOR: black">From: </SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><<A>gnso-igo-ingo-bounces@icann.org</A>> on behalf of
Julie Bisland <<A>julie.bisland@icann.org</A>><BR><B>Date: </B>Thursday,
August 17, 2017 at 12:06<BR><B>To: </B>"<A>gnso-igo-ingo@icann.org</A>"
<<A>gnso-igo-ingo@icann.org</A>><BR><B>Cc:
</B>"<A>gnso-secs@icann.org</A>"
<<A>gnso-secs@icann.org</A>><BR><B>Subject: </B>[Gnso-igo-ingo]
Recordings, Attendance & AC Chat for IGO-INGO Protections in all gTLDS PDP
WG on Red Cross Names on 17 August 2017 at 13:00 UTC<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Dear
all, </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Please
find the attendance attached, and the mp3, Adobe Connect recording and AC Chat
below for the reconvened IGO-INGO Protections in all gTLDs PDP Working Group on
Red Cross Names held on Thursday, 17 August 2017 at 13:00
UTC.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Mp3:
</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><A
href="wlmailhtml: http:/audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-17aug17-en.mp3%0d">
http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-17aug17-en.mp3</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>AC
recording</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>:
</SPAN><SPAN style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><A
href="https://participate.icann.org/p59acngik1a/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=92ef84797cbc0a40edc01adc638682d4b8e9db4caddb88df1939c4dc577b4caa"><B><SPAN
style="BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black">https://participate.icann.org/p59acngik1a/</SPAN></B></A><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>The
recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master
Calendar page: </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><A
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=gYLy6cwOztaoXKyA01768242GhD7ZveWWPqNgIU4b-w&s=2r8FnPPkw7aiaErXSNUyXPL0JKwOtSPiUIvd9h6eur0&e=">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar[gnso.icann.org]</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Mailing
list archive: </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><A
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo/">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo/</A><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> </SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Agenda
Wiki page: </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'><A
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_-2Dg8hB&d=DwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=gYLy6cwOztaoXKyA01768242GhD7ZveWWPqNgIU4b-w&s=Rrt3vuqBgVwqEt0fn8JPv4WnPwYsV3FXJTC3VCs1jyE&e=">https://community.icann.org/x/-g8hB[community.icann.org]</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>**
Please let me know if your name has been left off the list
**</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Thank
you.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Kind
regards,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Julie
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>———————————————</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNoSpacing style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><U><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Adobe
Connect chat transcript for 17 August 2017</SPAN></U></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:Welcome to the Reconvened IGO INGO
PDP Working Group call on Red Cross Names on Thursday, 17 August 2017 at 13:00
UTC. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:Agenda wiki page: <A
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_-2Dg8hB&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=k1wo94sSUbWaoqtfbcQCj5rK4YOaypeUgXO53UhSvCk&s=I_16BY_qfDXIQ9fNax5rRL2xH8tGd-iAP7ADs611zJI&e">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_-2Dg8hB&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=k1wo94sSUbWaoqtfbcQCj5rK4YOaypeUgXO53UhSvCk&s=I_16BY_qfDXIQ9fNax5rRL2xH8tGd-iAP7ADs611zJI&e</A>=
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:looking for the
beeping<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Heather Forrest:Beeping noise?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:Welcome Ken Stubbs :)<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:Welcome Giacomo
Mazzone<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> ken stubbs:who is speaking ?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Heather Forrest:It's not clear to me how protection
of "Red Cross", etc and symbols covers the national society names<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> ken stubbs:i have a question after ther speakers
comments are over.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Thomas Rickert, WG Chair:Noted, Ken!<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):Thanks to Stephane
for the explanations!<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:I second Heather's
question.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):Apart from change in
the law, there is also the possibility that the PDP WG was not fully aware of
the legal basis - as Thomas is hinting, I feel<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Heather Forrest:So back to my earlier chat comment
- it's not clear to me how the national society names fit here in the Geneva
Convention<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:We are still not "fully aware" of the
legal basis, if any, for this request.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I feel that Stephane
has explained it quite well...<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:no, sorry, he talked around the
specific issue, hence the question.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Chuck Gomes:My understanding is that staff was
going to provide the WG with the legal basis for the national society
names. Is that correct? If not, I think that would be a good action
item before our next meeting.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText>Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):As Stephane apparently is
not on the adobe maybe the question could be read aloud and/or circulated in
writing<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Chuck, by circulating the Red Cross'
position paper and the Briefing Document that was used in Copenhagen (which was
prepared by staff and Bruce Tonkin), this group can fully discusss that
question. We didn't feel it's our place (as staff) to draw legal conclusions
specifically.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Chuck Gomes:@ Mary: You don't need to draw legal
conclusions but you could summarize the legal basis for protection of the
national names. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> ken stubbs:your talking over each
other<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Chuck, understood - but note that the
Geneva Conventions and the Protocols do not specifically mention the National
Society names, or what specific names associaed with the Red Cross are intended
by use of the terms "emblem" and "designations" therein. Hence, we felt it was
for the WG - with the assistance of the RC reps - to clarify what, exactly, is
the scope of the law as a result (especially in the DNS).<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):@Mary: could you
circulate the conclusions of the facilitated dialogue of Copenhagen as well as
the relevant Board Resolution? thanks<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Jorge, of course - hang on just a
moment.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Thomas Rickert, WG Chair:The use by individuals,
societies, firms or companies either public or private, other than those
entitled thereto under the present Convention, of the emblem or the designation
"Red Cross" or "Geneva Cross", or any sign or designation constituting an
imitation thereof, whatever the object of such use, and irrespective of the date
of its adoption, shall be prohibited at all times.By reason of the tribute paid
to Switzerland by the adoption of the reversed Federal colours, and of the
confusion which may arise between the arms of Switzerland and the distinctive
emblem of the Convention, the use by private individuals, societies or firms, of
the arms of the Swiss Confederation, or of marks constituting an imitation
thereof, whether as trademarks or commercial marks, or as parts of such marks,
or for a purpose contrary to commercial honesty, or in circumstances capable of
wounding Swiss national sentiment, shall be prohibited at all
times.Nevertheless, such High Contracting Parties as were not party to the
Geneva <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Thomas Rickert, WG Chair:That is the part of the
Geneva Convention that in my view is relevant for this. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> giacomo mazzone:Jorge you mean this: (2) Review of
briefing paper from Copenhagen facilitated discussion (<A
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo/2017-July/000046.html">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo/2017-July/000046.html</A>)<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I meant the
conclusions drwan by Bruce Tonkin from the facilitated discussion<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Heather Forrest:+1 Greg - it seems to me that the
lack of clarity on legal basis is exactly why we're here now (to answer Ken's
question that started this discussion)<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):the Board Resolution
is here: <A
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resources_board-2Dmaterial_resolutions-2D2017-2D03-2D16-2Den-232.e.i&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=k1wo94sSUbWaoqtfbcQCj5rK4YOaypeUgXO53UhSvCk&s=rKKnEHJ1PqpyngYHDIIthQ4ae8EPxlaAFXESSak4X7o&e">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resources_board-2Dmaterial_resolutions-2D2017-2D03-2D16-2Den-232.e.i&d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=QiF-05YzARosRvTYd84AB_UYInlydmFcjNmBM5XgySw&m=k1wo94sSUbWaoqtfbcQCj5rK4YOaypeUgXO53UhSvCk&s=rKKnEHJ1PqpyngYHDIIthQ4ae8EPxlaAFXESSak4X7o&e</A>=
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Thomas Rickert, WG Chair:What I pasted here is
Article 53<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):Both the Board
Resolution and the conclusions of the facilitated discussion highlighted both
the legal basis and the public policy considerations<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:We don't need an explicit reference to
domain names to find a legal basis.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:I thought we were looking at "rights
protections." If we are not talking about legal rights, what kind of rights are
we talking about?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Alan Greenberg:We (ICANN and the GNSO) have
sufficuent major issues to look at that we need to get this done quickly and
move on.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Jorge, can you provide more specific
citations, please.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Alan, I agree with the concern
regarding bandwidth. You and I are in many of the same groups. But that
doesn't support any particular conclusion.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:One could conclude that it takes many
pages of verbiage, because there is no clear and succinct statement that can be
made to show a basis for the claimed right for which protections are being
requested.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Jorge, the links to the Board resolution
(which you also posted, thanks) and the GNSO Council resolution have been pasted
in the Notes pod. Bruce's high level summary was in an email to the IGO-RC
discussion group, dated 13 March: <A
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/discussion-igo-rc/2017-March/000108.html">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/discussion-igo-rc/2017-March/000108.html</A><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):@Greg: I hope Mary
may find the conclusion/summary of the facilitated dialogue. As for the Board
Resolution this part is relevant: "(3) In considering the Board's request, the
Council is requested to duly take into account these factors and the public
policy advice to reserve the finite list of names of the Red Cross and Red
Crescent National Societies, as recognized within the International Red Cross
and Red Crescent Movement, in all gTLDs."<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Heather Forrest:+1 Chuck - basis in law had
significant impacts on the recommendations of the Reserved Names WG in
2007<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Jorge, what "factors" is the quoted
language referring to? The quoted language provides no support for any
particular conclusions.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):@Mary: I feel you
found the summary about IGOs - not the one on ICRC<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Chuck, @Thomas, I've pasted the factors
that the discussion group, Board and Council considered in the Notes
pod.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):"factors" refers I
guess to the preceding parts of the Resolution, where legal basis and GAC Advice
etc. are mentioned<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):sorry no
sound<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Then I guess that is what we should be
looking at, to see what they've said about legal basis.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):audio problems,
sorry!<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:would you like our operator to dial
out to you?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I'm ready I
think<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:yes, I see you have your speaker on
now. Excellent!<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):the Board Resolution
mentions the following public policy arguments included in GAC Advice: "and the
global public policy considerations in the protections of the identifiers of the
respective Red Cross and Red Crescent organizations from forms of misuse in the
domain name system, including from fraud and embezzlement in times of
humanitarian crises."<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Public policy is not a legal
basis.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Jorge, my apologies (re the wrong
message from Bruce). I cannot at the moment find a summary of the Red Cross
discussion but will resume looking after this call.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):@Mary: maybe the
summary took the form of the proposed Board language?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Where does the Geneva Convention
mention the names of the national societies? (Not individually but as a class of
"strings").<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Greg, I believe there is mention in
Article 44.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Chuck Gomes:Am I the only one that would like us to
use a systematic approach to deliberate on the questions we are tasked with
answering? We seem to continue to talk about all questions together, which
in my opinion makes it difficult to make progress. Why not focus on one
charter question at a time, discuss whether the three Council criteria are
satisfied and if not discuss whether there is a reasoable basis for making an
exception?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Alan Greenberg:Red Cross fraud is a bad thing, but
protecting the country names will d onothing to protect against such fraud. We
cannot stop similar names from being registered and we cannot protect against
words such as tsumani or flod. SO let's not confuse the
rationale.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Chuck, I think that would be a very
helpful and appropriate approach.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Chuck, @Greg, our (staff) assumption was
that the group is already on the question of "what is the reasonable basis"
(e.g. law and/or public policy), as the Council's (and Board's) list of
factors/criteria have already defined the scope for the group.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Chuck Gomes:On which charter question
Mary?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:I'm not asking for perfection.
Just a reasonable and objective legal basis.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Chuck, on the specific request to
possibly amend the PDP recommendation concerning the names of the Red Cross
National Societies and the two International Movement names., plus a limited,
defined set of variants.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Chuck Gomes:What charter question are we discussing
now?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Mary, where in Article 44? I'm looking
at Art 44 and not seeing it.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Chuck, all - the charter (scope) for
this group was outlined in the Council resolution i.e. amend the original PDP
recomemndation regarding the national society names, the two international
movement names, and the agreed limited variant list.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Art 44 is entitled "Combatants and
prisoners of war."<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> giacomo mazzone:I agree with what Jorge just said.
it's a matter of public policy mainly (legal aspects are important but are a
plus). aim of the group is to identify what's the best way to ensure this
protection with the minimum of hurdles.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Greg, it is Article 44 of the First
Geneva Convention 1949, I believe.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary
Wong:https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Article.xsp?action=openDocument&documentId=5CCB6DD2AB618FABC12563CD0051A251<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jennifer Breckenridge:GC Convention 1- ARTICLE
44 With the exception of the cases mentioned in the following paragraphs
of the present Article, the emblem of the Red Cross on a white ground and the
words "Red Cross", or "Geneva Cross" may not be employed, either in time of
peace or in time of war, except to indicate or to protect the medical units and
establishments, the personnel and material protected by the present Convention
and other Conventions dealing with similar matters. The same shall apply to the
emblems mentioned in Article 38, second paragraph [ Link ] , in respect of the
countries which use them. The National Red Cross Societies and other Societies
designated in Article 26 [ Link ] shall have the right to use the
distinctive emblem conferring the protection of the Convention only within the
framework of the present paragraph. Furthermore, National Red Cross (Red
Crescent, Red Lion and Sun) Societies may, in time of peace, in accordance with
their national legislation, make use of the name and emblem of the Red
Cros<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I feel the document
really is clear enough, when the purpose is to understand<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):question tp Greg:
have you read the 44-pager?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Chuck Gomes:The language is not at all clear to
me.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):@Chuck: of course,
it is legal language<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jennifer Breckenridge:continued.....for their other
activities which are in conformity with the principles laid down by the
International Red Cross Conferences. When those activities are carried out in
time of war, the conditions for the use of the emblem shall be such that it
cannot be considered as conferring the protection of the Convention; the emblem
shall be comparatively small in size and may not be placed on armlets or on the
roofs of buildings.The international Red Cross organizations and their duly
authorized personnel shall be permitted to make use, at all times, of the emblem
of the Red Cross on a white ground.As an exceptional measure, in conformity with
national legislation and with the express permission of one of the National Red
Cross (Red Crescent, Red Lion and Sun) Societies, the emblem of the Convention
may be employed in time of peace to identify vehicles used as ambulances and to
mark the position of aid stations exclusively assigned to the purpose of giving
free treatment to the wounded or sick.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I feel the burden is
on who is making questions and to refer to the 44-doc<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:All, will it help for staff to
recirculate the provisions that Jennifer and Stephane cited/quoted, as well as
Jennifer's statement on thsi call?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:The burden of proof is always on those
trying to prove something.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Chuck Gomes:Legal language can be clear and often
is. This legal language is not. The explanations given may be valid
but without them I never would have concluded that the national names need to be
protected. All that seems clear is that they can use the
emblems.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):well, they have in
my view... with 44 pages...<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Your view is not in doubt,
Jorge.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):when you make such
an effort, the minimum is to be specific in the follow-up
questions<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:A for Effort, perhaps, but not an A for
clarity.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):I was a bit unsure
about whether all had read it, as comments were being made to a completely
unrelated provision of the Conventions...<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Having heard what has been said here,
one can now form some more specific questions.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:Jorge, blame Google for pulling up the
wrong Geneva Convention Art. 44.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jennifer Breckenridge:sorry its long and keeps
cutting off the end of the clause...<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Jennifer, I put the link to the specific
Article in the chat above. This entire chat will also be saved and circulatd to
the list.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText>Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):@Greg: I'll agree on that
;P<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Greg Shatan:If we can avoid 1300-1400 UTC we can
avoid overlap with CCWG.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> giacomo mazzone:who shall prepare the summary
requested for point 2 ? it was not clear tome ...<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Julie Bisland:I’ll send out an email invite
shortly, for 7 September 2017 at 14 :00 UTC<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Giacomo, staff will work with Thomas to
follow up on the requests made on this call.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Heather Forrest:just noting that 1400 utc is 00:00
for parts of APAC<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> giacomo mazzone:thank Mary, could you circulate in
advance to avoid that discussion endless will go on during the
call<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Mary Wong:@Giacomo, yes, we will circulate to the
list.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoPlainText> Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland):thanks Thomas, all
and regards<o:p></o:p></P>
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