From nathalie.peregrine at icann.org Wed Sep 3 08:01:04 2014 From: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org (Nathalie Peregrine) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:01:04 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] REMINDER: PLEASE RSVP Monthly GNSO WG Newcomer Open House Session Message-ID: Reminder: Monthly GNSO WG Newcomer Open House Session These ongoing monthly sessions are for new GNSO WG participants to come together and discuss any questions they may have about GNSO Working Groups, procedures and/or processes. We know there is a lot of information to digest when you join a GNSO Working Group and these monthly meetings are an opportunity for newcomers and more experienced participants to meet in an informal setting without the pressure of "real work" that needs be done. The agenda is flexible. The presenters will be ready with a standard set of materials if people would like to discuss them. Feel free to submit questions, either in advance or at the beginning of the meeting, if there is a topic that you would like to explore in more depth . Providing useful answers to a wide range of questions is part of the reason why these meetings are Thursday 4 September at 20.00 UTC Thursday 2 October at 12.00 UTC Thursday 6 November at 20.00 UTC Thursday 4 December at 12.00 UTC To convert to your local time zone, please see http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html If you are interested to join the next meeting on 4 September or any of the future meetings, please let the GNSO Secretariat know ( gnso-secs at icann.org) and we will send you the call details. If there are any specific questions you already have, or any overviews or introductions you think would be helpful (e.g. GNSO Policy Development Process or GNSO Working Group guidelines), please let us know in advance and we will prepare materials accordingly. Feel free to share this invitation with others that you think may be interested. We look forward to welcoming you at the next meeting! Nathalie Peregrine GNSO Secretariat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5457 bytes Desc: not available URL: From caitlin.tubergen at icann.org Mon Sep 8 19:26:05 2014 From: caitlin.tubergen at icann.org (Caitlin Tubergen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 19:26:05 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference Message-ID: <73fd2aa15b3b419eb4a9311c434710f0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> Dear all, The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 at 16:00 UTC. 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which I will distribute before the call. Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ Adobe Connect with audio enabled: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ Please let me know if you have any questions. Kind regards, Caitlin Tubergen Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 1960 bytes Desc: not available URL: From caitlin.tubergen at icann.org Tue Sep 16 21:35:47 2014 From: caitlin.tubergen at icann.org (Caitlin Tubergen) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 21:35:47 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference Message-ID: <3c5eb920e90c444987b39bbe12212303@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> Dear all, The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 at 16:00 UTC. 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which I will distribute before the call. Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ Adobe Connect with audio enabled: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ Please let me know if you have any questions. Kind regards, Caitlin Tubergen Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 3453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From caitlin.tubergen at icann.org Wed Sep 17 22:47:44 2014 From: caitlin.tubergen at icann.org (Caitlin Tubergen) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 22:47:44 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference Message-ID: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> Dear all, The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 at 16:00 UTC. 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is attached. Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ Adobe Connect with audio enabled: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ Please let me know if you have any questions. Kind regards, Caitlin Tubergen Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 3387 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx Type: application/x-msword Size: 116535 bytes Desc: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx URL: From simonetta at sedo.com Thu Sep 18 17:04:34 2014 From: simonetta at sedo.com (Batteiger, Simonetta) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:04:34 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference In-Reply-To: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> References: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I apologize for my non working microphone on today's call. Please find a couple of wording suggestions attached for discussion in the group. Simonetta -----Original Appointment----- From: Caitlin Tubergen [mailto:caitlin.tubergen at icann.org] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:48 AM To: gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Leticia Castillo Cc: Amy Bivins; Steve Chan; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Mike Zupke; Arthur Zonnenberg; Lars Hoffmann; Terri Agnew; Nathalie Peregrine; Marika Konings; Michele Neylon - Blacknight Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference When: Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:00 PM-5:00 PM (UTC) Coordinated Universal Time. Where: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 Dear all, The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 at 16:00 UTC. 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is attached. Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ Adobe Connect with audio enabled: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ Please let me know if you have any questions. Kind regards, Caitlin Tubergen Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN << File: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Draft Change of Registrant Policy_edits_Simonetta.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 25408 bytes Desc: Draft Change of Registrant Policy_edits_Simonetta.docx URL: From azonnenberg at hostnet.nl Mon Sep 22 12:31:44 2014 From: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl (Arthur Zonnenberg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:31:44 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference In-Reply-To: References: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> Message-ID: <391164827.42779.1411389104998.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> Hi Everyone, Some interesting implementation topics were raised during the call, inspiring me to add some edits and comments to be discussed in our next session. Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, Arthur Zonnenberg Product Manager Hostnet bv tel: +31.207500834 fax: +31.207500825 mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl website: https://www.hostnet.nl > On September 18, 2014 at 7:04 PM "Batteiger, Simonetta" > wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > I apologize for my non working microphone on today's call. > Please find a couple of wording suggestions attached for discussion in the > group. > Simonetta > > -----Original Appointment----- > From: Caitlin Tubergen [mailto:caitlin.tubergen at icann.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:48 AM > To: gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Leticia Castillo > Cc: Amy Bivins; Steve Chan; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Mike Zupke; > Arthur Zonnenberg; Lars Hoffmann; Terri Agnew; Nathalie Peregrine; Marika > Konings; Michele Neylon - Blacknight > Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference > When: Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:00 PM-5:00 PM (UTC) Coordinated Universal > Time. > Where: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > > > Dear all, > > The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation Review > Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 at 16:00 UTC. > 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. > > > We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is > attached. > > > Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > > > Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ > > > Adobe Connect with audio enabled: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ > > > Please let me know if you have any questions. > > > Kind regards, > > > Caitlin Tubergen > Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager > ICANN > > << File: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Draft Change of Registrant Policy_edits_Simonetta Arthur.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 9128 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michele at blacknight.com Mon Sep 22 12:39:48 2014 From: michele at blacknight.com (Michele Neylon - Blacknight) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:39:48 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference In-Reply-To: <391164827.42779.1411389104998.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> References: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> <391164827.42779.1411389104998.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> Message-ID: Arthur You cannot simply change it to "change of whois information" The entire policy is around "change of registrant" Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie http://www.blacknight.press for all our news & media Intl. +353 (0) 59? 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland? Company No.: 370845 -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Zonnenberg [mailto:azonnenberg at hostnet.nl] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 1:32 PM To: Caitlin Tubergen; Leticia Castillo; gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Batteiger, Simonetta Cc: Amy Bivins; Terri Agnew; Marika Konings; Mike Zupke; Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Steve Chan; Lars Hoffmann; Nathalie Peregrine Subject: Re: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference Hi Everyone, Some interesting implementation topics were raised during the call, inspiring me to add some edits and comments to be discussed in our next session. Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, Arthur Zonnenberg Product Manager Hostnet bv tel: +31.207500834 fax: +31.207500825 mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl website: https://www.hostnet.nl > On September 18, 2014 at 7:04 PM "Batteiger, Simonetta" > > wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > I apologize for my non working microphone on today's call. > Please find a couple of wording suggestions attached for discussion in > the group. > Simonetta > > -----Original Appointment----- > From: Caitlin Tubergen [mailto:caitlin.tubergen at icann.org] > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:48 AM > To: gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Leticia Castillo > Cc: Amy Bivins; Steve Chan; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Mike > Zupke; Arthur Zonnenberg; Lars Hoffmann; Terri Agnew; Nathalie > Peregrine; Marika Konings; Michele Neylon - Blacknight > Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference > When: Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:00 PM-5:00 PM (UTC) Coordinated > Universal Time. > Where: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > > > Dear all, > > The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation > Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 at 16:00 UTC. > 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. > > > We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is > attached. > > > Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > > > Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ > > > Adobe Connect with audio enabled: > http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ > > > Please let me know if you have any questions. > > > Kind regards, > > > Caitlin Tubergen > Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN > > << File: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx >> > From jbladel at godaddy.com Mon Sep 22 13:14:48 2014 From: jbladel at godaddy.com (James M. Bladel) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:14:48 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference In-Reply-To: References: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> <391164827.42779.1411389104998.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> Message-ID: Hi Folks: The IRTP-C recommendations clearly designate a ?Change of Registrant? consensus policy. It also refers to this as a ?change of control,? which would, IMO, include email address since that is the destination address for the FOA/AuthInfo code. For your convenience, here is a link to the IRTP-C PDP Final Report: http://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/irtp-c-final-report-09oct12-en.pdf Thanks-- J. On 9/22/14, 7:39 , "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" wrote: >Arthur > >You cannot simply change it to "change of whois information" > >The entire policy is around "change of registrant" > >Regards > >Michele > > >-- >Mr Michele Neylon >Blacknight Solutions >Hosting, Colocation & Domains >http://www.blacknight.host/ >http://blog.blacknight.com/ >http://www.technology.ie >http://www.blacknight.press for all our news & media >Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >Social: http://mneylon.social >------------------------------- >Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business >Park,Sleaty >Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Zonnenberg [mailto:azonnenberg at hostnet.nl] >Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 1:32 PM >To: Caitlin Tubergen; Leticia Castillo; gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; >Batteiger, Simonetta >Cc: Amy Bivins; Terri Agnew; Marika Konings; Mike Zupke; Michele Neylon - >Blacknight; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Steve Chan; Lars >Hoffmann; Nathalie Peregrine >Subject: Re: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference > >Hi Everyone, > >Some interesting implementation topics were raised during the call, >inspiring me to add some edits and comments to be discussed in our next >session. > >Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, > >Arthur Zonnenberg >Product Manager >Hostnet bv > >tel: +31.207500834 >fax: +31.207500825 >mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl >website: https://www.hostnet.nl > >> On September 18, 2014 at 7:04 PM "Batteiger, Simonetta" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi Everyone, >> I apologize for my non working microphone on today's call. >> Please find a couple of wording suggestions attached for discussion in >> the group. >> Simonetta >> >> -----Original Appointment----- >> From: Caitlin Tubergen [mailto:caitlin.tubergen at icann.org] >> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:48 AM >> To: gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Leticia Castillo >> Cc: Amy Bivins; Steve Chan; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Mike >> Zupke; Arthur Zonnenberg; Lars Hoffmann; Terri Agnew; Nathalie >> Peregrine; Marika Konings; Michele Neylon - Blacknight >> Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference >> When: Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:00 PM-5:00 PM (UTC) Coordinated >> Universal Time. >> Where: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation >> Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 >>at 16:00 UTC. >> 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. >> >> >> We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is >> attached. >> >> >> Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 >> >> >> Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ >> >> >> Adobe Connect with audio enabled: >> http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ >> >> >> Please let me know if you have any questions. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> Caitlin Tubergen >> Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN >> >> << File: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx >> >> From azonnenberg at hostnet.nl Mon Sep 22 13:44:16 2014 From: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl (Arthur Zonnenberg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:44:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference In-Reply-To: References: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> <391164827.42779.1411389104998.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> Message-ID: <1293016560.42935.1411393456096.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> In response to Michele and James, although this discussion should be saved for the next conference: - I am aware of the original report; - I advise to use clear language for implementation, to avoid miscommunication based on wording. IRTP-C simply is not a "Change of Registrant" policy anymore the minute the PDP decided to include a change of e-mail address, which industry wide and stand is known as a "contact update" , originating from the RFC5730 EPP standard. Although contact create and domain update are also used via EPP, most registrar price lists clearly distinguish a change of registrant price versus a change of contact information price. This distinction is in my experience also regularly communicated to end users. Since we were discussing definitions 1.b), that includes the definition of the name given to the policy itself. So either we forbid discussions of the definitions or we change it to something that can be implemented or communicated clearly. Alternatively we can call it a "Change of Control" Policy, with the burden of explaining that to end users (not too dissimilar from the IRTP in general). In any case "Change of Registrant" or "Change of Registrant Information" is incomplete since we apply it to e-mail and admin-c as well and therefore confusing. I therefore call on the group to include change of control policy metrics, for example about the policy being complained about as confusing in communication (point above), or about changes of registrant/control being failed or abandoned, measuring its effectiveness (see my other comment in the document). We have currently have no data to check whether this policy to be implemented will actually succeed in the majority of user cases in practice. If this is beyond the scope of IRTP-C policy, it will need to be addressed by the to be accepted IRTP-D policy. Or are there alternatives for checking the effect of what we are doing? Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, Arthur Zonnenberg Product Manager Hostnet bv tel: +31.207500834 fax: +31.207500825 mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl website: https://www.hostnet.nl > On September 22, 2014 at 3:14 PM "James M. Bladel" > wrote: > > > > Hi Folks: > > The IRTP-C recommendations clearly designate a ?Change of Registrant? > consensus policy. It also refers to this as a ?change of control,? which > would, IMO, include email address since that is the destination address > for the FOA/AuthInfo code. > > For your convenience, here is a link to the IRTP-C PDP Final Report: > http://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/irtp-c-final-report-09oct12-en.pdf > > Thanks-- > > J. > > > On 9/22/14, 7:39 , "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" > wrote: > > >Arthur > > > >You cannot simply change it to "change of whois information" > > > >The entire policy is around "change of registrant" > > > >Regards > > > >Michele > > > > > >-- > >Mr Michele Neylon > >Blacknight Solutions > >Hosting, Colocation & Domains > >http://www.blacknight.host/ > >http://blog.blacknight.com/ > >http://www.technology.ie > >http://www.blacknight.press for all our news & media > >Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > >Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > >Social: http://mneylon.social > >------------------------------- > >Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business > >Park,Sleaty > >Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Arthur Zonnenberg [mailto:azonnenberg at hostnet.nl] > >Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 1:32 PM > >To: Caitlin Tubergen; Leticia Castillo; gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; > >Batteiger, Simonetta > >Cc: Amy Bivins; Terri Agnew; Marika Konings; Mike Zupke; Michele Neylon - > >Blacknight; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Steve Chan; Lars > >Hoffmann; Nathalie Peregrine > >Subject: Re: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference > > > >Hi Everyone, > > > >Some interesting implementation topics were raised during the call, > >inspiring me to add some edits and comments to be discussed in our next > >session. > > > >Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, > > > >Arthur Zonnenberg > >Product Manager > >Hostnet bv > > > >tel: +31.207500834 > >fax: +31.207500825 > >mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl > >website: https://www.hostnet.nl > > > >> On September 18, 2014 at 7:04 PM "Batteiger, Simonetta" > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hi Everyone, > >> I apologize for my non working microphone on today's call. > >> Please find a couple of wording suggestions attached for discussion in > >> the group. > >> Simonetta > >> > >> -----Original Appointment----- > >> From: Caitlin Tubergen [mailto:caitlin.tubergen at icann.org] > >> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:48 AM > >> To: gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Leticia Castillo > >> Cc: Amy Bivins; Steve Chan; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Mike > >> Zupke; Arthur Zonnenberg; Lars Hoffmann; Terri Agnew; Nathalie > >> Peregrine; Marika Konings; Michele Neylon - Blacknight > >> Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference > >> When: Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:00 PM-5:00 PM (UTC) Coordinated > >> Universal Time. > >> Where: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > >> > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation > >> Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September 2014 > >>at 16:00 UTC. > >> 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. > >> > >> > >> We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is > >> attached. > >> > >> > >> Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > >> > >> > >> Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ > >> > >> > >> Adobe Connect with audio enabled: > >> http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ > >> > >> > >> Please let me know if you have any questions. > >> > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> > >> Caitlin Tubergen > >> Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN > >> > >> << File: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx >> > >> > > From jbladel at godaddy.com Mon Sep 22 14:06:07 2014 From: jbladel at godaddy.com (James M. Bladel) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:06:07 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference In-Reply-To: <1293016560.42935.1411393456096.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> References: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> <391164827.42779.1411389104998.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> <1293016560.42935.1411393456096.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> Message-ID: Arthur: Respectively, the time for this discussion was pre-2012. It is wholly inappropriate to re-open these issues within the context of Implementation. J. On 9/22/14, 8:44 , "Arthur Zonnenberg" wrote: >In response to Michele and James, although this discussion should be >saved for >the next conference: >- I am aware of the original report; >- I advise to use clear language for implementation, to avoid >miscommunication >based on wording. IRTP-C simply is not a "Change of Registrant" policy >anymore >the minute the PDP decided to include a change of e-mail address, which >industry >wide and stand is known as a "contact update" , originating from the >RFC5730 EPP >standard. > >Although contact create and domain update are also used via EPP, most >registrar >price lists clearly distinguish a change of registrant price versus a >change of >contact information price. This distinction is in my experience also >regularly >communicated to end users. > >Since we were discussing definitions 1.b), that includes the definition >of the >name given to the policy itself. So either we forbid discussions of the >definitions or we change it to something that can be implemented or >communicated >clearly. > >Alternatively we can call it a "Change of Control" Policy, with the >burden of >explaining that to end users (not too dissimilar from the IRTP in >general). In >any case "Change of Registrant" or "Change of Registrant Information" is >incomplete since we apply it to e-mail and admin-c as well and therefore >confusing. > >I therefore call on the group to include change of control policy >metrics, for >example about the policy being complained about as confusing in >communication >(point above), or about changes of registrant/control being failed or >abandoned, >measuring its effectiveness (see my other comment in the document). We >have >currently have no data to check whether this policy to be implemented will >actually succeed in the majority of user cases in practice. If this is >beyond >the scope of IRTP-C policy, it will need to be addressed by the to be >accepted >IRTP-D policy. Or are there alternatives for checking the effect of what >we are >doing? > >Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, > >Arthur Zonnenberg >Product Manager >Hostnet bv > >tel: +31.207500834 >fax: +31.207500825 >mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl >website: https://www.hostnet.nl > >> On September 22, 2014 at 3:14 PM "James M. Bladel" >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Folks: >> >> The IRTP-C recommendations clearly designate a ?Change of Registrant? >> consensus policy. It also refers to this as a ?change of control,? >>which >> would, IMO, include email address since that is the destination address >> for the FOA/AuthInfo code. >> >> For your convenience, here is a link to the IRTP-C PDP Final Report: >> http://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/irtp-c-final-report-09oct12-en.pdf >> >> Thanks-- >> >> J. >> >> >> On 9/22/14, 7:39 , "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" >> >> wrote: >> >> >Arthur >> > >> >You cannot simply change it to "change of whois information" >> > >> >The entire policy is around "change of registrant" >> > >> >Regards >> > >> >Michele >> > >> > >> >-- >> >Mr Michele Neylon >> >Blacknight Solutions >> >Hosting, Colocation & Domains >> >http://www.blacknight.host/ >> >http://blog.blacknight.com/ >> >http://www.technology.ie >> >http://www.blacknight.press for all our news & media >> >Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >> >Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >> >Social: http://mneylon.social >> >------------------------------- >> >Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business >> >Park,Sleaty >> >Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Arthur Zonnenberg [mailto:azonnenberg at hostnet.nl] >> >Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 1:32 PM >> >To: Caitlin Tubergen; Leticia Castillo; gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; >> >Batteiger, Simonetta >> >Cc: Amy Bivins; Terri Agnew; Marika Konings; Mike Zupke; Michele >>Neylon - >> >Blacknight; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Steve Chan; Lars >> >Hoffmann; Nathalie Peregrine >> >Subject: Re: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C >>Teleconference >> > >> >Hi Everyone, >> > >> >Some interesting implementation topics were raised during the call, >> >inspiring me to add some edits and comments to be discussed in our next >> >session. >> > >> >Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, >> > >> >Arthur Zonnenberg >> >Product Manager >> >Hostnet bv >> > >> >tel: +31.207500834 >> >fax: +31.207500825 >> >mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl >> >website: https://www.hostnet.nl >> > >> >> On September 18, 2014 at 7:04 PM "Batteiger, Simonetta" >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> I apologize for my non working microphone on today's call. >> >> Please find a couple of wording suggestions attached for discussion >>in >> >> the group. >> >> Simonetta >> >> >> >> -----Original Appointment----- >> >> From: Caitlin Tubergen [mailto:caitlin.tubergen at icann.org] >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:48 AM >> >> To: gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Leticia Castillo >> >> Cc: Amy Bivins; Steve Chan; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Mike >> >> Zupke; Arthur Zonnenberg; Lars Hoffmann; Terri Agnew; Nathalie >> >> Peregrine; Marika Konings; Michele Neylon - Blacknight >> >> Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference >> >> When: Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:00 PM-5:00 PM (UTC) Coordinated >> >> Universal Time. >> >> Where: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation >> >> Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September >>2014 >> >>at 16:00 UTC. >> >> 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. >> >> >> >> >> >> We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is >> >> attached. >> >> >> >> >> >> Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 >> >> >> >> >> >> Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ >> >> >> >> >> >> Adobe Connect with audio enabled: >> >> http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ >> >> >> >> >> >> Please let me know if you have any questions. >> >> >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> >> >> >> Caitlin Tubergen >> >> Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN >> >> >> >> << File: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx >> >> >> >> >> From azonnenberg at hostnet.nl Mon Sep 22 14:39:16 2014 From: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl (Arthur Zonnenberg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:39:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference In-Reply-To: References: <6722c1be1a334f1d8d09f4c3f06d69b0@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> <391164827.42779.1411389104998.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> <1293016560.42935.1411393456096.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> Message-ID: <366000075.42997.1411396756900.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox.office.hostnet.nl> James: Respectively, I am not of the opinion that procedure is a good reason to communicate unclearly. We can delay the metrics to future discussions, however definitions would be ill advised to fly in the face of industry standards. Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, Arthur Zonnenberg Product Manager Hostnet bv tel: +31.207500834 fax: +31.207500825 mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl website: https://www.hostnet.nl > On September 22, 2014 at 4:06 PM "James M. Bladel" > wrote: > > > > Arthur: > > Respectively, the time for this discussion was pre-2012. It is wholly > inappropriate to re-open these issues within the context of Implementation. > > J. > > > On 9/22/14, 8:44 , "Arthur Zonnenberg" wrote: > > >In response to Michele and James, although this discussion should be > >saved for > >the next conference: > >- I am aware of the original report; > >- I advise to use clear language for implementation, to avoid > >miscommunication > >based on wording. IRTP-C simply is not a "Change of Registrant" policy > >anymore > >the minute the PDP decided to include a change of e-mail address, which > >industry > >wide and stand is known as a "contact update" , originating from the > >RFC5730 EPP > >standard. > > > >Although contact create and domain update are also used via EPP, most > >registrar > >price lists clearly distinguish a change of registrant price versus a > >change of > >contact information price. This distinction is in my experience also > >regularly > >communicated to end users. > > > >Since we were discussing definitions 1.b), that includes the definition > >of the > >name given to the policy itself. So either we forbid discussions of the > >definitions or we change it to something that can be implemented or > >communicated > >clearly. > > > >Alternatively we can call it a "Change of Control" Policy, with the > >burden of > >explaining that to end users (not too dissimilar from the IRTP in > >general). In > >any case "Change of Registrant" or "Change of Registrant Information" is > >incomplete since we apply it to e-mail and admin-c as well and therefore > >confusing. > > > >I therefore call on the group to include change of control policy > >metrics, for > >example about the policy being complained about as confusing in > >communication > >(point above), or about changes of registrant/control being failed or > >abandoned, > >measuring its effectiveness (see my other comment in the document). We > >have > >currently have no data to check whether this policy to be implemented will > >actually succeed in the majority of user cases in practice. If this is > >beyond > >the scope of IRTP-C policy, it will need to be addressed by the to be > >accepted > >IRTP-D policy. Or are there alternatives for checking the effect of what > >we are > >doing? > > > >Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, > > > >Arthur Zonnenberg > >Product Manager > >Hostnet bv > > > >tel: +31.207500834 > >fax: +31.207500825 > >mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl > >website: https://www.hostnet.nl > > > >> On September 22, 2014 at 3:14 PM "James M. Bladel" > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi Folks: > >> > >> The IRTP-C recommendations clearly designate a ?Change of Registrant? > >> consensus policy. It also refers to this as a ?change of control,? > >>which > >> would, IMO, include email address since that is the destination address > >> for the FOA/AuthInfo code. > >> > >> For your convenience, here is a link to the IRTP-C PDP Final Report: > >> http://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/irtp-c-final-report-09oct12-en.pdf > >> > >> Thanks-- > >> > >> J. > >> > >> > >> On 9/22/14, 7:39 , "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >Arthur > >> > > >> >You cannot simply change it to "change of whois information" > >> > > >> >The entire policy is around "change of registrant" > >> > > >> >Regards > >> > > >> >Michele > >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Mr Michele Neylon > >> >Blacknight Solutions > >> >Hosting, Colocation & Domains > >> >http://www.blacknight.host/ > >> >http://blog.blacknight.com/ > >> >http://www.technology.ie > >> >http://www.blacknight.press for all our news & media > >> >Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > >> >Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > >> >Social: http://mneylon.social > >> >------------------------------- > >> >Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business > >> >Park,Sleaty > >> >Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: Arthur Zonnenberg [mailto:azonnenberg at hostnet.nl] > >> >Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 1:32 PM > >> >To: Caitlin Tubergen; Leticia Castillo; gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; > >> >Batteiger, Simonetta > >> >Cc: Amy Bivins; Terri Agnew; Marika Konings; Mike Zupke; Michele > >>Neylon - > >> >Blacknight; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Steve Chan; Lars > >> >Hoffmann; Nathalie Peregrine > >> >Subject: Re: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] RE: Save the Date: IRTP-C > >>Teleconference > >> > > >> >Hi Everyone, > >> > > >> >Some interesting implementation topics were raised during the call, > >> >inspiring me to add some edits and comments to be discussed in our next > >> >session. > >> > > >> >Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, > >> > > >> >Arthur Zonnenberg > >> >Product Manager > >> >Hostnet bv > >> > > >> >tel: +31.207500834 > >> >fax: +31.207500825 > >> >mail: azonnenberg at hostnet.nl > >> >website: https://www.hostnet.nl > >> > > >> >> On September 18, 2014 at 7:04 PM "Batteiger, Simonetta" > >> >> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Hi Everyone, > >> >> I apologize for my non working microphone on today's call. > >> >> Please find a couple of wording suggestions attached for discussion > >>in > >> >> the group. > >> >> Simonetta > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Appointment----- > >> >> From: Caitlin Tubergen [mailto:caitlin.tubergen at icann.org] > >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:48 AM > >> >> To: gnso-impl-irtpc-rt at icann.org; Leticia Castillo > >> >> Cc: Amy Bivins; Steve Chan; Glen de Saint G?ry; James M. Bladel; Mike > >> >> Zupke; Arthur Zonnenberg; Lars Hoffmann; Terri Agnew; Nathalie > >> >> Peregrine; Marika Konings; Michele Neylon - Blacknight > >> >> Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Save the Date: IRTP-C Teleconference > >> >> When: Thursday, September 18, 2014 4:00 PM-5:00 PM (UTC) Coordinated > >> >> Universal Time. > >> >> Where: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Dear all, > >> >> > >> >> The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation > >> >> Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 18 September > >>2014 > >> >>at 16:00 UTC. > >> >> 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> We will be discussing the draft Change of Registrant Policy, which is > >> >> attached. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Adobe Connect with audio enabled: > >> >> http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Please let me know if you have any questions. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Kind regards, > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Caitlin Tubergen > >> >> Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN > >> >> > >> >> << File: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx >> > >> >> > >> > >> > > From caitlin.tubergen at icann.org Mon Sep 22 23:33:12 2014 From: caitlin.tubergen at icann.org (Caitlin Tubergen) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:33:12 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] IRTP-C Implementation Review Team Meeting Message-ID: Dear all, The next Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Part C Implementation Review Team teleconference is scheduled for Thursday 2 October 2014 at 16:00 UTC. 09:00 PDT, 12:00 EDT, 17:00 London, 17:00 CET, 03:00 (+1 day) Sydney. I have attached an updated, red-lined Change of Registrant Policy, which incorporates some of the discussions from our last call. Please feel free to share this document with other community members. Call details can be found below: Adigo Conference ID: 28462745 Adigo numbers: http://adigo.com/icann/ Adobe Connect with audio enabled: http://icann.adobeconnect.com/irtppartc/ Please let me know if you have any questions. Kind regards, Caitlin Tubergen Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 2159 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx Type: application/x-msword Size: 142538 bytes Desc: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx URL: From caitlin.tubergen at icann.org Mon Sep 22 23:36:46 2014 From: caitlin.tubergen at icann.org (Caitlin Tubergen) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:36:46 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] Updated Draft Change of Registrant Policy Message-ID: Dear all, Thank you for the great discussion. I have attached an updated, red-lined Change of Registrant Policy, which incorporates some of the discussions from our last call. Please feel free to share this document with the RrSG and other community members prior to our next call. I look forward to further discussion on our next call on Thursday, 2 October at 1600 UTC. A calendar invite was just sent out. Kind regards, Caitlin Tubergen Registrar Relations and Contracts Manager ICANN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Draft Change of Registrant Policy.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 142538 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5050 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nathalie.peregrine at icann.org Wed Sep 24 18:11:36 2014 From: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org (Nathalie Peregrine) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:11:36 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] PLEASE RSVP: Pre- Los Angeles Policy Update Webinars - Thursday 2 October 2014 at 10:00 & 19:00 UTC Message-ID: The ICANN Policy Development Support Team will provide a Policy Update Webinar on Thursday 2 October 2014 at 10:00 UTC and 19:00 UTC, summarizing policy activities across the ICANN policy development community and the ongoing Transition of Stewardship of the IANA Functions and the ICANN Accountability track efforts. Please RSVP via this form by 26 September 2014. Remote participation details will be sent the week of 29 September 2014. Updates will also be provided on topics from ICANN's Support Organizations and Advisory Committees: . ASO and Regional Internet Registries RIR Activities . GNSO Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy Part D Working Group . GNSO Policy and Implementation Working Group . GNSO Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues Working Group . ccNSO Framework of Interpretation Working Group Final Report . ALAC Policy Advice and RALO Activities . ATLAS II Implementation Progress . GAC's Remaining Advice on new generic Top-Level Domains . GAC's Implementation of ATRT2 Recommendations . RSSAC Caucus Work Parties . SSAC Advisories and Activities The two sessions are duplicates, scheduled to accommodate different time zones. Each session runs for 90 minutes and will be conducted in English only. The webinar will be conducted in Adobe Connect along with a dial-in conference bridge for audio. Participants will have the opportunity to ask questions at the end of each session. During the course of the webinar, questions may be submitted using the chat function in Adobe Connect. Recordings of the webinars will be made available. The Policy Development Support Team is always available to answer any questions via email at policyinfo at icann.org. Again, please RSVP via this form by 26 September 2014. Remote participation details will be sent the week of 29 September 2014. We look forward to welcoming you on the Pre-ICANN 51 Policy Update Webinar! Best Regards, ICANN Policy Development Support Team -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5457 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nathalie.peregrine at icann.org Thu Sep 25 19:44:00 2014 From: nathalie.peregrine at icann.org (Nathalie Peregrine) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 19:44:00 +0000 Subject: [gnso-impl-irtpc-rt] PLEASE RSVP Monthly GNSO WG Newcomer Open House Session Message-ID: <6fe6e301344e4fd1b1546f9cbeeba37b@PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG> Reminder: Monthly GNSO WG Newcomer Open House Session These ongoing monthly sessions are for new GNSO WG participants to come together and discuss any questions they may have about GNSO Working Groups, procedures and/or processes. We know there is a lot of information to digest when you join a GNSO Working Group and these monthly meetings are an opportunity for newcomers and more experienced participants to meet in an informal setting without the pressure of "real work" that needs be done. The agenda is flexible. The presenters will be ready with a standard set of materials if people would like to discuss them. Feel free to submit questions, either in advance or at the beginning of the meeting, if there is a topic that you would like to explore in more depth . Providing useful answers to a wide range of questions is part of the reason why these meetings are Thursday 23 October at 12.00 UTC (new date) Thursday 6 November at 20.00 UTC Thursday 4 December at 12.00 UTC To convert to your local time zone, please see http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html If you are interested to join the next meeting on 23 October or any of the future meetings, please let the GNSO Secretariat know ( gnso-secs at icann.org) and we will send you the call details. If there are any specific questions you already have, or any overviews or introductions you think would be helpful (e.g. GNSO Policy Development Process or GNSO Working Group guidelines), please let us know in advance and we will prepare materials accordingly. Feel free to share this invitation with others that you think may be interested. We look forward to welcoming you at the next meeting! Nathalie Peregrine GNSO Secretariat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 5457 bytes Desc: not available URL: