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<p>You are welcome Steve, <br>
<br>
I guess we will wait for further responses as my brain is fried at
the moment, a 16-hour work day will do that you. Though in my
little world, it makes sense they are not certified for that
aspect. I mean we only send them domain name and name servers,
nothing else (in a nutshell).<br>
<br>
Slightly off topic, but can you mention those registries, not on
the list? Or perhaps we should do this offlist? Not that I am
asking you to do my leg work, but it sounds you hit the same
problem as me. A lot of Registries rely on a backend operator.
That is where the actual data goes to. <br>
<br>
So in some cases, you have to dig deeper and in some cases like
very obvious registries you find out they use a backend in Europe
:)<br>
<br>
Have a good one, <br>
<br>
Theo <br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31-8-2016 21:05, Metalitz, Steven
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<title></title>
Thanks Theo. I did check the Safe Harbor list and found some major
registries not on it or not referencing Whois data in their
self-certification. Verisign was in the latter category. But
awaiting further responses.<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent with Good (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.good.com">www.good.com</a>)<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From: </b>theo geurts [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>]<br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:49 AM Pacific Standard
Time<br>
<b>To: </b>Metalitz, Steven; 'Anderson, Marc';
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org">gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] Draft Thick Whois
memo to the GNSO<br>
<br>
Hi Steve,<br>
<br>
Good questions, I'll let Marc come up with his own answers.<br>
<br>
Just to point out on 1 though, USA back end Registries did rely on
Safe Harbor. You can still look them up here:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://safeharbor.export.gov/list.aspx"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://safeharbor.export.gov/list.aspx</a><br>
<br>
I already reached out to several of them, and they informed me
they are in the process of getting certified for Privacy Shield. I
as an EU based Registrar have a duty to make sure that when I send
data to USA based companies they are Privacy Shield certified. If
they are not certified then I am breaking the law.<br>
<br>
Keep in mind though that Privacy Shield itself is just a formality
to send data to the USA. Privacy Shield itself is not enough. So
as an EU Registrar I cannot put my feet on the table and relax
that dealing with a Privacy Shield certified company is enough.<br>
<br>
Privacy Shield is a framework, nothing more, a Privacy Shield
certified company can still be in violation of the EU directive.
As such an EU Registrar has to make sure that the USA based
privacy shield Registry back end provider is not in violation of
the directive.<br>
This puts a huge burden on the Registry but also on the Registrar.
Within the thin WHOIS model, this no burden does not apply.<br>
<br>
The Dutch Government introduced an additional requirement in 2014
that certain IT companies actually have to audit the American
companies they do business with.<br>
Currently, this does not apply for Dutch Registrars. But these
things, as we know can change (laws change all the time). Though I
think I wouldn't mind a few trips to the USA to audit some
Registries :)<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Theo<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31-8-2016 17:37, Metalitz, Steven
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks for
providing this draft, Marc. A couple of questions about
it on a quick read:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(1)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->
<span style="color:#1F497D"> The first two developments to
which you cite are the invalidation of the US-EU Safe
Harbor Program and the adoption of the EU-US Privacy
Shield framework to replace it. My impression is that US
registries generally did not rely upon the Safe Harbor in
processing thick Whois data (e.g., receiving Whois data
containing personally identifiable information from
European registrars and making it available through
registry Whois), and so would not have been directly
impacted by its invalidation. Is my impression wrong?
If I am correct then what is the relevance of either the
Safe Harbor or the Privacy Shield in this context? </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(2)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->
<span style="color:#1F497D">The last paragraph refers to
data localization laws apart from EU privacy/data
protection laws. Can you be more specific? I note that
the Russian law was referenced in footnotes 2 and 10 of
the legal review provided to the IRT in June 2015, are
there other issues not covered by that analysis?</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(3)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->
<span style="color:#1F497D">If the IRT were to send this
letter, the GNSO council might well ask what (if
anything) we are asking them to do. How would you
respond? </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="color:#1F497D">Steve
Metalitz</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#88162E"><img
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:part3.C061AE2F.4906F990@xs4all.nl"
alt="image001" height="41" width="124"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#88162E">Steven
J. Metalitz</span></b>
<span style="color:black">| </span><b><span
style="color:#88162E">Partner, through his
professional corporation</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">T: 202.355.7902</span>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">|</span> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:met@msk.com"><span
style="color:black">met@msk.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#88162E">Mitchell
Silberberg & Knupp</span></b>
<b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#88162E">LLP</span></b>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">
|</span> <span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#84162E"><b><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.msk.com/"><span
style="color:#84162E">www.msk.com</span></a></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">1818 N Street NW,
8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><u><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;color:gray">THE INFORMATION
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b>
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org">gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Anderson, Marc<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 26, 2016 3:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org">
gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] Draft Thick
Whois memo to the GNSO</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Colleagues,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">During the IRT meetings held at ICANN 56
Helsinki, Joe Waldron raised concerns with the changing
landscape of Privacy Laws, in particular with regard to the
EU. He pointed out that recommendation #3 of the Thick
Whois policy directs the IRT to notify the GNSO should
privacy issues emerge that were not anticipated by the
working group. The IRT agreed that we have an obligation to
notify the GNSO and asked Verisign to draft a proposed memo
from the IRT to the GNSO.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please find attached that draft memo
outlining the obligation and the reasons why we think it is
necessary to provide that notification at this time.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marc</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part9.73379C0F.21519173@xs4all.nl"
alt="Verisign" height="2" border="0" width="371"></p>
</td>
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<td style="padding:11.25pt 0in 15.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:10.5pt"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#006AAA">Marc
Anderson</span></b><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#6B6D71"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mcanderson@verisign.com">mcanderson@verisign.com</a><br>
<br>
m: 571.521.9943 t: 703.948.3404<br>
12061 Bluemont Way, Reston, VA 20190<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.verisigninc.com/"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;color:#006AAA">VerisignInc.com</span></a></span></p>
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