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    Hi Francisco,<br>
    <br>
    Thanks for the clarifications, very helpful.<br>
    <br>
    Regarding this transition, I was not aware this was pending
    community discussion, My guess outside of the ICANN bubble very few
    are aware.<br>
    It is now clear to me that the two should coexist.<br>
    But the RAA 2013 is less clear when it comes to this subject (the
    reason I brought this up). <br>
    <br>
    Registration Data Directory Services. <br>
    <br>
    U<i>ntil ICANN requires a different protocol, Registrar will operate
      a WHOIS service available via port 43 in accordance with RFC 3912,
      and a web-based Directory Service providing free public
      query-based access to at least the elements set forth in Section
      3.3.1.1 through 3.3.1.8 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement
      in the format set forth in Section 1.4 of this Specification.
      ICANN reserves the right to specify alternative formats and
      protocols, and upon such specification, the Registrar will
      implement such alternative specification as soon as reasonably
      practicable.</i><br>
    <br>
    Now we can have several interpretations on how we could read this,
    but one of the interpretations could be, implement RDAP and your
    requirement for the port 43 service is no longer required, as it is
    replaced by RDAP. <br>
    <br>
    In short, the RAA 2013 does not specify what to do. <br>
    The email that was sent out a few weeks ago about RDAP did not
    specify what to do, besides implementing it. <br>
    As such you might have Registrars come up with their own
    interpretation. <br>
    <br>
    But perhaps I am the only one who sees an issue here.<br>
    <br>
    Talk to you folks on the call in a few. <br>
    <br>
    Theo <br>
    <p><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><br>
      </span></p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 27-9-2016 02:33, Francisco Arias
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:C46407BF-16D8-4FC1-AACB-5928F21ACC2F@icann.org"
      type="cite">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">[Apologies
            for not replying inline, the new version of Outlook won’t
            let me.]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The date for
            shutting down Whois port 43 has not been discussed or
            defined with the community. Therefore, stating 1 February
            2017 we would be in the transition period where both WHOIS
            and RDAP would coexist.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The
            requirement for having a valid DNSSEC chain of trust is not
            coming from the RDAP RFCs; this is a requirement from the
            gTLD RDAP profile that was discussed and agreed with the
            community.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The
            requirement to preserve case is a “SHOULD” not a “MUST”,
            hence following your example, the contracted party would be
            free to return “example.com”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The gTLD
            RDAP profile requires registrant, technical and
            administrative, and optionally allows for a billing contact.
            The gTLD profile addresses how to support more roles (e.g.,
            contacts), for example, see section 1.3.6 of the profile.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regarding
            variants, section 1.5.17 of the profile addresses this:
            <i>In the case of Registrars, the variants member MUST
              reflect the latest known set of variant domain names and
              relation types.</i><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Francisco</span><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF
          4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
          4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black">On
                    9/26/16, 5:05 AM, "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org">gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org</a>
                    on behalf of theo geurts" &lt;<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org">gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org</a>
                    on behalf of <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>&gt;
                    wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Times
                New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <p>Thanks Dennis, <br>
            <br>
            First of all, if we look what has been published is that
            RDAP should be implemented Feb 1, 2017 (draft 1 April). What
            I am missing, is a transition period. If everyone implements
            it, and shuts down the WHOIS servers we have a problem.
            <br>
            <br>
            The resource records related to the RDAP service MUST be
            signed with DNSSEC, and the DNSSEC chain of trust from the
            root trust anchor to the name of the RDAP server MUST be
            valid at all times.<br>
            -Looks sensible, but I cannot find this in the RFC's
            mentioned, is the above language a result of this?<br>
            <br>
            In the case (i.e. uppercase and lowercase) of the data
            returned in RDAP responses SHOULD preserve the case received
            via EPP.<br>
            -TG- This needs to be specified perhaps for contact fields
            for example. As it, reads now you register ExAmPlE.com but
            you cannot return, example.com. Least that is how I read it.
            <br>
            <br>
            The domain object in the RDAP response MUST contain entities
            with the following roles. Exactly one entity per role MUST
            be present in the response.<br>
            -TG-Most gTLDs support more roles. Is there no support or
            does the policy ends this support for more roles?<br>
            <br>
            -RDAP does not support a country code for a contact, rather
            RDAP requires a full country name.
            <br>
            -TG- This, is a mapping nightmare, not everyone supports the
            official mapping, not sure how much work this is and will
            vary from Registrar to Registrar.
            <br>
            <br>
            If the queried domain name is allocated, the following
            applies: If allocated variant domain names exist for the
            queried domain name, or if the domain name is an allocated
            variant domain name, the domain object in the RDAP response
            MUST contain a variants member [RFC7483].<br>
            -TG- We do not store this, and it seems to contradict the
            following  in the profile :"The purpose of this profile is
            to specify the RDAP requirements that are in line with the
            current Whois service requirements."<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>Theo <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 24-9-2016 20:10, Dennis Chang wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Theo,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This is
                the first item on the agenda for the IRT meeting on
                Tuesday.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Please
                keep the questions coming.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If you
                could provide specifics on “irregularities within RDAP”
                and “clarification on a few issues” in advance, that
                will help us to prepare better for our team discussion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Dennis Chang</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span
                  style="color:black">theo geurts
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl">&lt;gtheo@xs4all.nl&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 1:16 AM<br>
                  <b>To: </b>"Anderson, Marc" <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:mcanderson@verisign.com">&lt;mcanderson@verisign.com&gt;</a>,
                  Dennis Chang
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:dennis.chang@icann.org">&lt;dennis.chang@icann.org&gt;</a>,
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org">
                    "gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org"</a> <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org">
                    &lt;gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt]
                  Proposed Path Forward | Thick Whois CL&amp;D Policy,
                  RDAP and RySG Request for Reconsideration</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:&quot;Times
                  New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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            <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dennis,<br>
              <br>
              This looks like the path forward, and I am supportive of
              the proposed path forward as a Registrar.<br>
              <br>
              Perhaps I am jumping the gun here, but how would this
              dialogue with the community take place?
              <br>
              Furthermore, how do we address irregularities within RDAP?
              Or get clarification on a few issues that I assume have
              not been discussed yet?<br>
              <br>
              Thanks, <br>
              <br>
              Theo <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">On 21-9-2016 19:58, Anderson, Marc
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Dennis,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank you for
                  the excellent explanation and details.  On behalf of
                  Verisign and as a member of the RySG I would like to
                  express my support for the revised CL&amp;D policy and
                  the path forward you have laid out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Marc Anderson</span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">From:</span></b><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org">gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org</a>
                      [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt-bounces@icann.org</a>]
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dennis Chang<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 21, 2016 1:42 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org">gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt] Proposed
                      Path Forward | Thick Whois CL&amp;D Policy, RDAP
                      and RySG Request for Reconsideration</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Dear IRT members,<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">As you know, on 7 February 2014, the
                ICANN Board adopted GNSO consensus policy
                recommendations regarding the provision of “Thick” Whois
                by all gTLD registries.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">In consultation with the consensus
                policy Implementation Review Team (IRT), the
                implementation team identified two expected outcomes in
                the policy development process (PDP) recommendations:<o:p></o:p></p>
              <ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
                <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">The
                  consistent labeling and display of WHOIS output for
                  all gTLDs
                  <o:p></o:p></li>
                <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">The
                  transition from Thin to Thick WHOIS for .COM, .NET and
                  .JOBS
                  <o:p></o:p></li>
              </ul>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">The first outcome was published as a
                consensus policy, the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resources_pages_rdds-2Dlabeling-2Dpolicy-2D2016-2D07-2D26-2Den&amp;d=DQMDaQ&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=dqLP1wJqBvDSYLKrSEaAkCi_Kv0Mk5D_d32n29DHCN8&amp;m=pkBrE3ogDYFgpWAATzOOdmRD93_Pz1PCrWtnSZN7Lg4&amp;s=7mN42JF9avjgJDjFj4ZrjgmhMajcH8mgr2MOTxILGts&amp;e=">Registry
                  Registration Data Directory Services Consistent
                  Labeling and Display Policy[icann.org]</a> (CL&amp;D
                Policy), on 26 July 2016.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">In August 2016, the Registry
                Stakeholder Group (RySG) submitted a
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resources_pages_reconsideration-2D16-2D10-2Drysg-2Drequest-2D2016-2D08-2D11-2Den&amp;d=DQMDaQ&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=dqLP1wJqBvDSYLKrSEaAkCi_Kv0Mk5D_d32n29DHCN8&amp;m=pkBrE3ogDYFgpWAATzOOdmRD93_Pz1PCrWtnSZN7Lg4&amp;s=f3NsGYRUd-AUuYr1fLckI0cksGxfF7ZbHmR82CBKyPg&amp;e=">Request
                  for Reconsideration[icann.org]</a> (RfR) regarding the
                CL&amp;D Policy. The RfR objects to the inclusion of
                RDAP as part of the Consensus Policy as RDAP was not
                contemplated or referenced in the policy
                recommendations.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">To resolve this matter, ICANN
                proposes the following path forward for the IRT:<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">1. ICANN to issue a revised CL&amp;D
                Policy to all registry operators, removing provision 12.
                For your reference, provision 12 states: “The
                implementation of an RDAP service in accordance with the
                "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_rdap-2Dgtld-2Dprofile&amp;d=DQMDaQ&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=dqLP1wJqBvDSYLKrSEaAkCi_Kv0Mk5D_d32n29DHCN8&amp;m=pkBrE3ogDYFgpWAATzOOdmRD93_Pz1PCrWtnSZN7Lg4&amp;s=BEeCQrYK7JMscoggE25Woxu-0TdskrtCGjX6Sj6NVTo&amp;e=">RDAP
                  Operational Profile for gTLD Registries and
                  Registrars[icann.org]</a>" is required for all gTLD
                registries in order to achieve consistent labeling and
                display.” Additionally, I have attached the proposed
                revised CL&amp;D Policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">2. Issue a revised notification to
                registry operators regarding implementation of the
                CL&amp;D Policy, clearly indicating what has changed in
                the revised CL&amp;D Policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">3. Set the revised CL&amp;D Policy
                effective date to allow for full 6-month implementation
                from the date of the revised notice.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">4. Update the published CL&amp;D
                Policy on the ICANN website, noting a change has been
                made. Note: The revised CL&amp;D Policy would
                <u>not</u> be subject to another Public Comment process.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">5. Rescind the notification sent to
                registrars to implement RDAP.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">ICANN intends to issue notices for
                registries and registrars to implement RDAP after
                further dialogue with the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Please let us know if you have
                comments or concerns by responding to this list. Unless
                we hear otherwise, we intend to move forward with the
                plan outlined above on 4 October 2016.<o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">— </span><o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Kind
                        Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Dennis S.
                        Chang</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">GDD
                        Services &amp; Engagement Program Director</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">+1 213 293
                        7889</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Skype:
                        dennisSchang</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
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                        "One World, One Internet"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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              <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org">Gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Dimpl-2Dthickwhois-2Drt&amp;d=DQMDaQ&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=dqLP1wJqBvDSYLKrSEaAkCi_Kv0Mk5D_d32n29DHCN8&amp;m=pkBrE3ogDYFgpWAATzOOdmRD93_Pz1PCrWtnSZN7Lg4&amp;s=4kbspuXnx6QwVFowMkdtINMgbQE8VDBSKEyWHfD8wDo&amp;e=">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-impl-thickwhois-rt[mm.icann.org]</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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